Alcoholism: an unclean unchristian habit

[Nazaroo]

Is it a sin to drink in moderation?

Do you think Westcott was a drunkard?!

Yes, and yes.

Alcohol is not a food.
A food is defined as a substance that provides energy and nutrients to the physical body.
Alcohol uses up energy by the body for its destruction and elimination, and destroys critically important nutrients and minerals that the body cannot synthesize.

Alcohol is a drug.
This is a well-documented scientific fact. It is also addictive, and breaks down normal inhibitions and restraints, causing people who would normally be under self-control and avoid sin, to commit many sins.

Alcohol is an industrial solvent.
Its real use is in chemical processes for manufacturing, and as a fuel for combustion vehicles.

Alcohol is a poison.
Again, a well-documented scientific and medical fact: Alcohol is a destructive poison, that kills cells, breaks down important structures, and interferes with key chemical processes in the body.
It also drastically retards healing and prevents full recovery from injury.

The Bible instructs Christians "Be sober." a dozen times in the New Testament.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are you a tea totaler now?

Eating bacon is bad for you too & how about coffee

 

[Priscilla Ann]

Drunkenness is a sin, so is gorging on too much food. Having a beer is not a sin. Neither is enjoying a good meal. Unfortunately, I know Christians who would never touch a beer, but think nothing of sitting down and eating an entire pie or a half gallon of ice cream. Ever had a sugar hangover?

 

[preacher4truth]

Drunkenness is a sin, so is gorging on too much food. Having a beer is not a sin. Neither is enjoying a good meal. Unfortunately, I know Christians who would never touch a beer, but think nothing of sitting down and eating an entire pie or a half gallon of ice cream. Ever had a sugar hangover?

You have spoken truth here.

People love to condemn what they do not engage in (alcohol in context here) which is not forbidden in Scripture with the exception of drunkeness, even Jesus Himself being accused of being a winebibber.

These same persons cast away their own sin (gluttony) as trivial, since said persons do engage in this (too many in the church eat way too much and regularly practice this sin.) I speak this concerning not the author of this OP but that many against alcohol consumption altogether engage in gluttonous behavior, and to whomever else the shoe fits.

- Grace and Peace

 

[Nazaroo]

You have spoken truth here.

People love to condemn what they do not engage in (alcohol in context here) which is not forbidden in Scripture with the exception of drunkeness, even Jesus Himself being accused of being a winebibber.

False accusations against Jesus are no basis for building a doctrine, especially one of permissiveness.

Think it through.

These same persons cast away their own sin (gluttony) as trivial, since said persons do engage in this (too many in the church eat way too much and regularly practice this sin.) I speak this concerning not the author of this OP but that many against alcohol consumption altogether engage in gluttonous behavior, and to whomever else the shoe fits.

- Grace and Peace

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Gluttony has been a Christian sin for 2000 years.
Only in the last few years has it been ignored and overlooked.

I'm not a glutton, I'm not overweight, and I'm not personally engaging in any hypocrisy here.

 

[Nazaroo]

Are you a tea totaler now?

I've been a Nazarite for about 35 years.

Eating bacon is bad for you too & how about coffee

I keep the food laws in the Bible as best I can.
There are different degrees of sin,
as I have propounded in the other thread.
Having a coffee is not as bad as having 10 beers.
Both are questionable, unless you are administering the coffee as a prescription for a medical condition, which is quite common.

For instance,

(1) Migraine management: Both caffeine and ergot are prescribed for migraine headache syndrome.

(2) Blood pressure problems: caffeine is effective in regulating blood pressure.

(3) metabolism problems: caffeine and a variety of stimulants are effective in treating metabolism disorders, and they are used to assist in treating obesity also.

(4) Alertness problems: dangers involved in operating heavy machinery, driving, and other dangerous occupations requiring concentration and alertness can be alleviated by moderate use of caffeine.

However, recreational drug use is never approved of in the Bible.

 

[webdog]

False accusations against Jesus are no basis for building a doctrine, especially one of permissiveness.

Think it through.




Two wrongs don't make a right.

Gluttony has been a Christian sin for 2000 years.
Only in the last few years has it been ignored and overlooked.

I'm not a glutton, I'm not overweight, and I'm not personally engaging in any hypocrisy here.

You made the false accusation against Jesus by stating He didn't drink or make real alcoholic wine.

Water is not considered a food...i guess that is sin?

these alcohol threads using man's reasoning make me want a drink.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Having a coffee is not as bad as having 10 beers.

So would having 10 coffees be as bad as having 1 beer?

So I guess you get to decide what the really bad sins are and what the permissable sins are. So you can drink a coffee and still not be as bad as drinking a beer or 10.

You better keep obeying the law because if you break one, you're guilty of all. (James 2:10)

 

[webdog]

I've been a Nazarite for about 35 years.



I keep the food laws in the Bible as best I can.
There are different degrees of sin,
as I have propounded in the other thread.
Having a coffee is not as bad as having 10 beers.
Both are questionable, unless you are administering the coffee as a prescription for a medical condition, which is quite common.

For instance,

(1) Migraine management: Both caffeine and ergot are prescribed for migraine headache syndrome.

(2) Blood pressure problems: caffeine is effective in regulating blood pressure.

(3) metabolism problems: caffeine and a variety of stimulants are effective in treating metabolism disorders, and they are used to assist in treating obesity also.

(4) Alertness problems: dangers involved in operating heavy machinery, driving, and other dangerous occupations requiring concentration and alertness can be alleviated by moderate use of caffeine.

However, recreational drug use is never approved of in the Bible.

Do you wear clothes of blended fabrics?

 

[Amy.G]

Unfortunately, I know Christians who would never touch a beer, but think nothing of sitting down and eating an entire pie or a half gallon of ice cream. Ever had a sugar hangover?

You mean that's wrong? Oops. I love pie. :saint:

 

[webdog]

Yes, and yes.

Alcohol is not a food.
A food is defined as a substance that provides energy and nutrients to the physical body.
Alcohol uses up energy by the body for its destruction and elimination, and destroys critically important nutrients and minerals that the body cannot synthesize.

alcohol consists of calories. You are aware of what a calorie is, right? Ever read the health benefits on the heart and other organs in moderation?

Alcohol is a drug.
This is a well-documented scientific fact. It is also addictive, and breaks down normal inhibitions and restraints, causing people who would normally be under self-control and avoid sin, to commit many sins.

Scripture stating all drugs are sinful? Wonder what Luke the physician used...

Alcohol is an industrial solvent.
Its real use is in chemical processes for manufacturing, and as a fuel for combustion vehicle.

The Holy Spirit inspired bible also states its real use is to gladden the heart and numb those who are perishing. Pretty broad scope of usage...not to mention I'm not sure how much the industrial age was part of the first century.

Alcohol is a poison.
Again, a well-documented scientific and medical fact: Alcohol is a destructive poison, that kills cells, breaks down important structures, and interferes with key chemical processes in the body.
It also drastically retards healing and prevents full recovery from injury.

...so is water if given too much (or anything for that matter)

The Bible instructs Christians "Be sober." a dozen times in the New Testament.

...which ONLY supports not getting drunk, not abstaining completely. Strawman.

 

[Jon-Marc]

In that case I sinned recently when a neighbor gave me a shot of whiskey. I see no more wrong with an occasional alcoholic drink than I do with anything else we eat or drink.

As for alcohol being food, neither is anything we drink. There is food we eat, and there are liquids we drink. That one drink had no effect whatsoever on me, and in my opinion was no different from drinking anything else--except for the alcohol.

As for being intoxicated, you can become that way from drinking too much water. I worked for 28 years at a VA Medical Center, and we had patients there who would become intoxicated from drinking excessive amounts of water. I had never heard of that before working there, but I definitely got an education there and learned things I hadn't known before.

 

[preacher4truth]

False accusations against Jesus are no basis for building a doctrine, especially one of permissiveness.

False accusations? You're out of control here like on most of your threads.

Mat 11:18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon!'
Mat 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."

Obviously? He drank a little wine. He also made some very good wine! One even said in essence "this was a good year!" concerning the wine He made.

Alcohol is not forbidden in the Bible, but generally is by traditions of men, typically among KJVO types in my experience. Give us a verse that says alcohol is completely forbidden and never to be used (minus the Nazarite vow.)

That wine in the Kingdom we will drink? It won't be Welchs my friend. And Billy Sunday won't have a sermon about it either, but maybe he'll blush a little as he has a sip?

- Peace

 

[Nazaroo]

There's no record of Jesus drinking an alcoholic beverage.

Eating and drinking is in contrast to John's practices, fasting both food and drink.

Note that Jesus shows that His opponents clearly alter the truth, and therefore their testimony cannot be trusted.

That is why I said you cannot build doctrines on what Jesus' opponents say.

 

[Nazaroo]

Nazaroo: Alcohol is not a food.
A food is defined as a substance that provides energy and nutrients to the physical body.
Alcohol uses up energy by the body for its destruction and elimination, and destroys critically important nutrients and minerals that the body cannot synthesize.


Webdog:
alcohol consists of calories. You are aware of what a calorie is, right?

Yes, I'm aware of what a calorie is. Its a unit of energy.
I'm a solid-state physicist and an electrical engineer.

You are confused.
There are indeed usable calories in common popular drinks.
The calories are found in other components in the drink, such as fruit sugars, double-sugars, oils and fats, and food proteins.

Alcohol however has no caloric value. The energy stored in the covalent bonds in an alcohol molecule are not usable energy, nor is it convertable to either stored energy or work by the human body.

Alcohol is broken down by enzymes made in the liver into less poisonous substances. This activity costs the body a net amount of energy. In essence it is partly oxidized and partly converted to other substances, like ammonia and excreted out of the body through the urine. It cannot be ingested as a food substance.

There is no energy payoff from ingesting alcohol. It has no food value.

 

[Nazaroo]

In that case I sinned recently when a neighbor gave me a shot of whiskey. I see no more wrong with an occasional alcoholic drink than I do with anything else we eat or drink.

That one drink had no effect whatsoever on me, and in my opinion was no different from drinking anything else--except for the alcohol.

you might as well tell me about a parking ticket.

As for alcohol being food, neither is anything we drink. There is food we eat, and there are liquids we drink.

You are confused.
In biology and medicine, food is not defined by whether it is liquid or not at room temperature.
Food is defined as a substance that provides energy and/or nutrients to the human body.
It can be in liquid or solid form.

As for being intoxicated, you can become that way from drinking too much water. I worked for 28 years at a VA Medical Center, and we had patients there who would become intoxicated from drinking excessive amounts of water. I had never heard of that before working there, but I definitely got an education there and learned things I hadn't known before.

Your anecdote however, is not helpful in clarifying the definition of a food or of a poison.

 

[Chowmah]

Isa.28
[1] Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
[2] Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
[3] The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet


1Cor.6
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes, if you are a drunk you should repent and quit but wouldnt that be practicing legalism?

 

[preacher4truth]

There's no record of Jesus drinking an alcoholic beverage.

Eating and drinking is in contrast to John's practices, fasting both food and drink.

Note that Jesus shows that His opponents clearly alter the truth, and therefore their testimony cannot be trusted.

That is why I said you cannot build doctrines on what Jesus' opponents say.

John didn't come eating and drinking, but Jesus did. They called him a glutton (because He ate) and a winebibber (because He drank) alluding that in so doing He was intemperant. That's the contrast.

OH NO!!! Jesus had wine?!!!

Do you know why Jesus went to the wedding in Cana? To enjoy Himself and have a good time. Something wrong with that? That's one reason. And He also drank of the cheap wine and made better in the end.

We'll have some at the marriage supper of the Lamb too.

And: Deu_14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

OH NO NOT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

 

[webdog]

Yes, I'm aware of what a calorie is. Its a unit of energy.
I'm a solid-state physicist and an electrical engineer.

You are confused.
There are indeed usable calories in common popular drinks.
The calories are found in other components in the drink, such as fruit sugars, double-sugars, oils and fats, and food proteins.

Alcohol however has no caloric value. The energy stored in the covalent bonds in an alcohol molecule are not usable energy, nor is it convertable to either stored energy or work by the human body.

Alcohol is broken down by enzymes made in the liver into less poisonous substances. This activity costs the body a net amount of energy. In essence it is partly oxidized and partly converted to other substances, like ammonia and excreted out of the body through the urine. It cannot be ingested as a food substance.

There is no energy payoff from ingesting alcohol. It has no food value.

Alcohol has 7 kcal's per gram, and based on your definition of "food" does qualify.

The alcohol/food debate has been done by many scientists and nutritionists over the years. Your opinion is just that, in fact I think based on your convictions concerning alcohol it is safe to say your opinion relies less on science and more on presupposition.

 

[webdog]

There's no record of Jesus drinking an alcoholic beverage.

Eating and drinking is in contrast to John's practices, fasting both food and drink.

Note that Jesus shows that His opponents clearly alter the truth, and therefore their testimony cannot be trusted.

That is why I said you cannot build doctrines on what Jesus' opponents say.

You couldn't be more wrong. Jesus is jewish. He abided by the levitical laws which included the passover. The only drink used during passover was required not to contain yeast...wine being the ONLY drink of that day which would have been used.