Alcoholism: an unclean unchristian habit

[DHK]

You couldn't be more wrong. Jesus is jewish. He abided by the levitical laws which included the passover. The only drink used during passover was required not to contain yeast...wine being the ONLY drink of that day which would have been used.

This is a complete myth abused and used by some here over and over again.
The reason they would not used any fermented wine is because of its absence of yeast or leaven. It was not to be seen or touched. Thus the symbolic nature of the Passover, the days of unleavened bread. Leaven was symbolic of sin and corruption. They were not to have any part of it, and that symbolism carried on to the Lord's Supper. It would have destroyed the symbolism of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, the purity of it, fit to be a sacrifice for the payment of our sins--pure, undefiled, without sin.

That is why grape juice was used. It had not yet been tainted with the yeast, the leaven, that was needed to corrupt the new grape juice into the corrupt wine.

 

[mandym]

Yes, and yes.

Alcohol is not a food.
A food is defined as a substance that provides energy and nutrients to the physical body.
Alcohol uses up energy by the body for its destruction and elimination, and destroys critically important nutrients and minerals that the body cannot synthesize.

Alcohol is a drug.
This is a well-documented scientific fact. It is also addictive, and breaks down normal inhibitions and restraints, causing people who would normally be under self-control and avoid sin, to commit many sins.

Alcohol is an industrial solvent.
Its real use is in chemical processes for manufacturing, and as a fuel for combustion vehicles.

Alcohol is a poison.
Again, a well-documented scientific and medical fact: Alcohol is a destructive poison, that kills cells, breaks down important structures, and interferes with key chemical processes in the body.
It also drastically retards healing and prevents full recovery from injury.

The Bible instructs Christians "Be sober." a dozen times in the New Testament.

Drinking in moderation cannot be said to be a sin. In moderation it is not a poison, it is not a solvent, it is no more a drug than NyQuil or any other medication. Nor does it automatically cause drunkenness unless it is taken in excess.

Having said that purchasing alcohol is a problem for Christians. The average lost person will relate a Christian purchasing it to how they view purchasing it themselves. In other words they will assume you will do with it what they do with it. Purchasing alcohol is a poor and unChristian testimony.


When we over state our claims we lose credibility.

 

[webdog]

This is a complete myth abused and used by some here over and over again.
The reason they would not used any fermented wine is because of its absence of yeast or leaven. It was not to be seen or touched. Thus the symbolic nature of the Passover, the days of unleavened bread. Leaven was symbolic of sin and corruption. They were not to have any part of it, and that symbolism carried on to the Lord's Supper. It would have destroyed the symbolism of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ, the purity of it, fit to be a sacrifice for the payment of our sins--pure, undefiled, without sin.

That is why grape juice was used. It had not yet been tainted with the yeast, the leaven, that was needed to corrupt the new grape juice into the corrupt wine.

We have gone around this one before. You remain ignorant to the very process of fermentation. Juice from that day would have been filled with yeast. Fermentation or pasteurization is the ONLY was to remove the yeast.

 

[webdog]

Drinking in moderation cannot be said to be a sin. In moderation it is not a poison, it is not a solvent, it is no more a drug than NyQuil or any other medication. Nor does it automatically cause drunkenness unless it is taken in excess.

Having said that purchasing alcohol is a problem for Christians. The average lost person will relate a Christian purchasing it to how they view purchasing it themselves. In other words they will assume you will do with it what they do with it. Purchasing alcohol is a poor and unChristian testimony.


When we over state our claims we lose credibility.

That begs the question, do all (or the majority) of the lost abuse it? You are assuming this to be fact.

You can insert just about anything in the place of alcohol and it could be a potential problem for a christian. We are not to live our lives walking on egg shells and wondering what each action will offend. Do we avoid the beach and pools since many non christians go there to lust? Do we avoid buffett's as many go there to commit gluttony? Do we avoid malls since many go there to be bad stewards of their money? Do we avoid music stores as many go there to purchase ungodly music? We can turn any daily activity into an issue of avoidance if we allow the suffocating grasp of legalism take a stranglehold on our lives.

 

[preacher4truth]

Purchasing alcohol is a poor and unChristian testimony.

No it's not. Being drunk is though.

 

[InTheLight]

There's no record of Jesus drinking an alcoholic beverage.

Eating and drinking is in contrast to John's practices, fasting both food and drink.

Note that Jesus shows that His opponents clearly alter the truth, and therefore their testimony cannot be trusted.

So when God serves us the finest fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you will refuse to drink it?

Isaiah 25:6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.

 

[webdog]

,,

So when God serves us the finest fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you will refuse to drink it?

Isaiah 25:6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine??—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.

I wasn't here the first time around when He made the first batch...but I'm looking forward to "best wine ever part 2" ,,,,,,,

 

[DHK]

No it's not. Being drunk is though.

Purchasing and drinking are two unrelated actions.
The one cannot be compared to the other.

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 Corinthians 6:12)

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (1 Corinthians 8:13)

 

[preacher4truth]

Purchasing and drinking are two unrelated actions. The one cannot be compared to the other.

I didn't compare the two.

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 Corinthians 6:12)

Does it really mean ALL things? Not being mastered by it (under the power) in other words, not being a drunkard.

Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend. (1 Corinthians 8:13)

Then I won't drink a Bud and Clamato in front of some.

 

[DHK]

Then I won't drink a Bud and Clamato in front of some.

That's not what the verse says. Let me make the application for today's society.

"...Then I will drink no alcoholic beverage (ever) while the world stands, lest I make my brother to offend."

For the same reason you would never go and purchase it--lest you offend your brother. Stay away from the dens of iniquity.

 

[Gina B]

I find no scriptural basis to advocate 100% abstinance from all drinks containing alcohol.

That said, I find it 100% wise to abstain from the use of alcoholic beverages in today's society apart from medical purposes.

This is because I've seen how ugly alcoholism can be. I can recall being grossly abused as a young child by people under the influence of alcohol. I've watched alcoholics destroy themselves and their families. A few years ago I was attacked by an alcoholic on a binge and left with a torn shoulder and a detached retina defending him from entering my apartment and going after my children.

I find it rare to find someone who claims to only drink alcohol in small amounts socially to be truthful about it. I ended up coming to know one person from online pretty well in real life, one who had done much research to prove that it is okay to drink alcohol medicinally and claimed only to do so. Then in real life, I found she drank "medicinally" on a very regular basis and was a real witch when she went without.

When living in alcoholism central (Alaska) I was pretty shocked by the number of alcoholics. It is an ugly, ugly, ugly thing.

And nobody who is a believer in just a drink or two starts out with the intention of drinking past their limit. Nobody starts out with the intention of becoming addicted.

In my much younger years, prior to wanting to live for Christ, I thought alcohol was just wonderful. It wasn't so wonderful when I ended up in the hospital detoxing.

From what I've experienced with drinking in my youth and from what people did to me when drunk in both my childhood and even as recent as a few years back, from seeing the ugliness this stuff brings on, I find it in no way, shape, or form something that anyone should want to find a reason to use for anything other than true medicinal purposes. But even that...a few years ago I would buy it and drink one serving for pain to replace a narcotic medication my doctor ordered. I did so because I knew that the narcotic would stay in my system for 48 hours and it would be illegal for me to drive if I took it and I had three kids to drive around, so when things got bad I would have that one drink a couple hours before bedtime and be fine in the morning to drive.

I won't even do that anymore. The very thought of it after all I've seen and been through just makes me sick and it also causes others to doubt. That's not worth it.

Now if Christ himself comes down and offers it...well guess what. I still wouldn't because I don't want it and I'm quite sure he would understand! I don't like the taste of wine anyhow, makes me gag. Chocolate liquor is another story and if it was Christ himself, I might oblige but I'm pretty sure he wasn't, isn't, and never will be into liquor. Haaaaaa

And if anyone wants to argue that fat people who eat bacon are sinning just as much, I've never been molested or had to defend myself against a fat person who had one too many slices. That argument is ridiculous.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thats cause they cant move, all the arteries are clogged.

Seriously I have no problem ingesting alcohol because Im not addicted to it & never have been. And I enjoy it in small quantities. Now if you have a problem with it, than stay away from it but dont mandate that nobody should have a drink now and again.....thats very unfair. And if Jesus did come over & offered, I would love to have a beer with him:thumbs:

Id even venture to guess he follows sports & plays darts. LOL

 

[Gina B]

Thats cause they cant move, all the arteries are clogged.

Seriously I have no problem ingesting alcohol because Im not addicted to it & never have been. And I enjoy it in small quantities. Now if you have a problem with it, than stay away from it but dont mandate that nobody should have a drink now and again.....thats very unfair. And if Jesus did come over & offered, I would love to have a beer with him:thumbs:

Id even venture to guess he follows sports & plays darts. LOL

Smart alec. :laugh:

 

[mandym]

That begs the question, do all (or the majority) of the lost abuse it? You are assuming this to be fact.

I never said they all abuse it. But becoming drunk is not an immoral view for the lost. And abstaining from alcohol to keep a proper testimony is not walking on egg shells.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Smart alec. :laugh:

Oh Hush :smilewinkgrin:

I will tell you somtin else....we take our communion with real wine (just as He gave it)! The Alcoholics get the grape juice!

 

[Nazaroo]

You couldn't be more wrong. Jesus is jewish. He abided by the levitical laws which included the passover. The only drink used during passover was required not to contain yeast...wine being the ONLY drink of that day which would have been used.

There was no alcoholic beverages allowed in the house during the entire Passover week, as per the Torah.
Nothing containing any kind of yeast or fermentation was allowed inside a Jewish home, for 8 whole days, not even bread.

The modern Jewish versions of the ceremony bear no correspondence whatever to the original authentic practice, which was instituted by Moses, and was not a period of celebration but a stern remembrance of the nights the Israelites lived in fear under the threat of the Egyptians, and the haste by which they fled the wrath of Pharaoh.

 

[Nazaroo]

I find no scriptural basis to advocate 100% abstinance from all drinks containing alcohol.

Thats why women shouldn't teach falsehoods on important topics.

 

[Nazaroo]

Do you know why Jesus went to the wedding in Cana? To enjoy Himself and have a good time. Something wrong with that?

There's something tragically wrong with your interpretation of the Wedding at Cana.

Do I know? Yes. I studied the passage for about 25 years and wrote a few books on it.

You can read a full statement of my position here:

The Real meaning of the Wedding at Cana

 

[webdog]

There was no alcoholic beverages allowed in the house during the entire Passover week, as per the Torah.
Nothing containing any kind of yeast or fermentation was allowed inside a Jewish home, for 8 whole days, not even bread.

The modern Jewish versions of the ceremony bear no correspondence whatever to the original authentic practice, which was instituted by Moses, and was not a period of celebration but a stern remembrance of the nights the Israelites lived in fear under the threat of the Egyptians, and the haste by which they fled the wrath of Pharaoh.

I love how you added fermentation to the requirement of no yeast being present. Fermentation and pasteurization are the only two methods to eliminate yeast from freshly squeezed grapes. It was real wine.

 

[webdog]

Thats why women shouldn't teach falsehoods on important topics.

She didn't...your understanding is the extra biblical falsehood regardless of how many books you wish to write on the subject. When you sttart with false presuppositions you arrive at false conclusions as you exhibit in this thread. It would behoove you to revisit your published works and study of this subject over the past 25 years. I once believed as you do now and it took me a fifth of this time to recant my error.