So true. That's a man's job!
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Alcoholism: an unclean unchristian habit
- Thread starter Nazaroo
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So true. That's a man's job!
You cannot have relations with your wife in the pulpit, are you also consistant in not approving of this?
Dr. Walter
New Member
Rom. 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
In context Paul has included both "wine" and "meats" and "days" found in the respective cultures of both Jews and Gentiles. Hence, "nothing" at the very least includes all these stated things.
However, Paul provides principles to deal with appropriate uses of such things:
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Not all things are "expedient" even though we are free to do them. In the end we are not the judge of our brethren in things we cannot in good conscience do but they can in regard to "things" not evil in themselves (days, meat, wine, etc.).
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
In context Paul has included both "wine" and "meats" and "days" found in the respective cultures of both Jews and Gentiles. Hence, "nothing" at the very least includes all these stated things.
However, Paul provides principles to deal with appropriate uses of such things:
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Not all things are "expedient" even though we are free to do them. In the end we are not the judge of our brethren in things we cannot in good conscience do but they can in regard to "things" not evil in themselves (days, meat, wine, etc.).
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
You are the one who is using your pulpit as the measuring rod on what can and cannot be supported. I wouldn't be so quick in accusing anyone of talking foolish using this method.
Tom Butler
New Member
Permit me to chase a small rabbit here. Gina has already said she doesn't think the scriptures teach total abstinence, but has outlined reasons she won't touch the stuff.
I'm assuming that those who believe the Bible teaches total abstinence also practice abstinence.
I agree with Gina, but I'm a teetotaler, too, as she is.
Are there any of you who also agree with Gina about abstinence but practice it anyway?
I guess, to cover all the bases, I should ask if any of you believe the Bible teaches abstinence, but drink anyway.
Nawwwww, never mind.
I'm assuming that those who believe the Bible teaches total abstinence also practice abstinence.
I agree with Gina, but I'm a teetotaler, too, as she is.
Are there any of you who also agree with Gina about abstinence but practice it anyway?
I guess, to cover all the bases, I should ask if any of you believe the Bible teaches abstinence, but drink anyway.
Nawwwww, never mind.
Of course alcoholism is not to be applauded....the same goes for any addiction...it enslaves the individual and has consequences on the person's life and those around him/her.
There is nothing wrong with a glass of wine or spirits in itself, the American Gun Lobby is always rattling on that the gun in itself is not evil but the person who wields it for the wrong use. I see that as a reasonable comparison.:1_grouphug:
There is nothing wrong with a glass of wine or spirits in itself, the American Gun Lobby is always rattling on that the gun in itself is not evil but the person who wields it for the wrong use. I see that as a reasonable comparison.:1_grouphug:
Well no, what did our Saviour do at the Wedding of Cana? Again, all things in moderation.
A little science would help you immensely.
Fermentation is the opposite of pasteurization.
Fermentation does not eliminate yeast from grapejuice.
Fermentation is the allowing of yeast to grow unchecked and uncontrolled.
Yeast is a filthy fungus, a living thing, which feeds off foods like the sugars in juices. It grows anaerobically, and produces unclean waste products like any other animal.
Sometimes (for the purpose of producing the maximum amount of alcohol content), the yeast is allowed to grow wild for so long, that it finally dies by suffocating in its own excrement, alcohol. Alcohol is effectively yeast-piss. By the end of this process, all the yeast dies off, but it hasn't gone anywhere. It the carcasses of the yeast sink to the bottom of the wine container, and they are called euphemistically, "sediment".
The alcohol is yeast-urine, and the sediment is dead yeast carcass. Even if you were to strain out most of the dead yeast, you leave behind a liquid which is 5% to 10% yeast-urine.
Imagine if I ran an illegal puppy-mill, and allowed the dogs to multiply like rabbits, until there were so many dogs they started eating each other in the cages, and rolled around dying in their own excrement. Once all the dogs are dead, I now take the cages, and remove most of the dead dog-carcasses, and scoop up all the remaining dogfood.
Now I sell this dogfood to you as hamburger patties, and tell you it is "dog-free" and now perfectly clean and safe to eat.
Of course you'd want to put me in jail once you found out how I manufactured the hamburger patties.
And no priest would knowingly pronounce the hamburger patties "kosher" or "clean" or fit for eating.
Quite true: Nothing is unclean of itself.
But when pronounced unclean by the word of God,
it remains unclean.
It may not be "unclean" to someone who doesn't know any better. What Paul clearly means here is that a sin of ignorance is not a sin. God doesn't hold those who are innocent of any intent guilty of intent.
But anyone knows, a man guilty of negligence or carelessness is still guilty of something, even if he didn't intend to kill someone or damage someone's property.
At some point, if we willfully refuse to learn, we become guilty, and we cannot claim 'ignorance' as an excuse for sinful behavior and consequences harmful to others.
At some point, God is going to hold you guilty, and will not accept the excuse that you didn't know, when a reasonable man would have known, and God Himself was trying to teach you.
Yes, its a reasonable comparison.
Guns have a use in self-defense.
Alcohol has a use in industry, but not as a food.
All things in moderation is not a Biblical proverb by itself.
It would be qualified by other scripture.
For instance, we wouldn't say "Fornicate in moderation."
As for the Wedding of Cana, read this:
The Real meaning of the Wedding at Cana
I have never known a man of distinction, virility & zest who doesnt take a drink now & again. Anyone who drinks responsibly is going to consider this argument for total abstinence totally preposterous & laughable
How do you do.
Many a Nazarite will be as virile and fanatical as any occasional drinker.
I will agree with their being fanatic's.:laugh:
In fact brother, I'm having a Yuengling Lager with lunch. Brewed from Americas oldest brewery in Pottsville PA & so Im keeping Americans working!
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Too bad you can't employ them furthering the Gospel,
or printing accurate Bibles.
If you could employ them in brothels or drug-houses,
would that be adequate to your standard,
as far as keeping Americans employed is concerned?
Funny, you have a bad habit of imposing your sense of morality on others, a God complex perhaps? If the government of the USA has no problem with the operation of a brewery & the bible doesnt than who do you think you are? Oh I know all about you... Do gooder, inflated ego, the pope of your life wishing to collect adherents to your own fictitious delusional world. Very entertaining. Cant wait to see what you do for your next performance.:laugh:
I guess I better ask again, since Nazaroo has ignored my question.
When God serves us the finest fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you will refuse to drink it?
Isaiah 25:6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
When God serves us the finest fermented wine at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you will refuse to drink it?
Isaiah 25:6 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
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Another question. How do you explain God being pleased with drink sacrifices, which were either wine or beer, and definitely contained alcohol?
Numbers 28:7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the LORD at the sanctuary.
Numbers 28:7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the LORD at the sanctuary.
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