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How Do baptists See/Define the Church of God?

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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
The universal church is made up of all believers. We will be all together one day. My church is still a church today though we will not be meeting.
Repetition of an unsubstantiated statement does not substantiate it.
I've already given two examples of "church" being used for all beleivers and local body of believers.
I haven't seen any.
No, those are ordinance for the local church. All believers should be doing those in their local church.
Since an assembly can only be local and not universal the point is moot. There is no such thing as a universal church. Try family of God. The ordinances were never given to the family of God.
And Christ is building his church, not a specific local church. Christ laid down his life for the church, not a specific local church.
His what?? The family of God is growing numerically.
Christ is growing his assembly?? The statement doesn't even make sense unless you put "assembly" in the plural. Each Biblical assembly should be growing but sadly that is not the case. It never has been. True Christianity has always been in the minority suffering for the sake of Christ. Christ laid down his life for us all. If you want to debate Acts 20:28, Paul speaking to the assembly at Ephesus, particularly the elders who came from Miletus, I will get into it with you.
we go to a local church. That's where we assemble today. The universal church is made up of all believers.
The family of God is made of all believers.
There is no such thing as a universal assembly.
You live in a house with your family.
Where is your universal house?
Words have meaning. We are not at liberty to change the meaning of words just to hold on to pet theologies, sentimental ideas. That is wrong and does injustice to the Word of God.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Does your church mean 24 hours a day or does it cease being a church until the next time your meet? Do you consider yourself a member of your local church even though you may not be there at the current moment? Unless you are in your church assembled, you have an "unassembled assembly" as you put it. You say, but we will meet soon. That's true of the universal church as well.
Where do you work?
Does your company make you work 24 hours a day. Is it still a company when business hours are over? Or does it cease being a company until the next time it meets when it opens its doors on the next business day? When you are not present at your company does that mean you are no longer an employee of your company? Do they take you off the payroll when you have a sick day?
Your company works (as far as you are concerned) in one place in one city. You can only be there when the doors are open for business. The company is not universal.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
DHK...





Could you please produce a "quote" from my post where I said anything about the "saints in heaven"

I did however refer to those christians who are currently not part of a local church.

Jesusfan refered to them as "lone ranger christians"
Sorry, you had just quoted Jesus Fan in your own post, which said:
The "Universal Church" per the Bible would be the departed saints in Christ who are with God right now, and all of the living saints upon the earth, who are found in local churches/denominations/ fellowships etc!
That is what I was referring to, not reading carefully that it was an actual quote from someone else.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
That is your unsubstantiated opinion with no scriptural support.
Paul wrote to the Corinthian Church: “Now you are a body of Christ and members in particular.”
Every assembly is a body of Christ, with Christ as the head. That is Biblical teaching. You won’t find your philosophy in the Bible.
Where do they assemble?
At what time?
Who does the preaching?
Who are the deacons?
Who takes up the offering?
An assembly is an assembly, a congregation. It is local—always! Your statement makes no sense because you defy the definition of assembly. You are trying to change the definition of a well known word. Language doesn’t work that way.
God looks at the assembly as carrying out the two ordinance that he gave his assembly (ies), baptism and the Lord’s Supper? This so-called universal church doesn’t do that and therefore is disobedient to the Lord. They have a hodge-podge of disparate doctrine, much of you would disagree with. They are not one in doctrine. And they do not assemble, contrary to what you assert. Why do you assert that which is not true?
No such monster exists.
As per, “assembly” there is only one kind—local. If you need a dictionary, use one. The church at Corinth was called a “body of Christ.” There was never any “universal church” referred to in the Bible. Why make up such a foreign concept now. Perhaps the term you are looking for is “the family of God, which does include all believers. The philosophy you present is not in the Bible, and I do not that you have not given a shred of Scripture to back up your “philosophy.”[/QUOTE]

the Lord has ONLY ONE CHURCH, that would be all those that have been redeemed by him and have been placed by the Holy Spirit intot he Body of Christ... A Spiritual group of saints, who just happen to attend a baptist, methodist/presby/IBF labeled church...

So God has some of His saints scattered throughout various local churches/denominations/independent no churches!
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
the Lord has ONLY ONE CHURCH, that would be all those that have been redeemed by him and have been placed by the Holy Spirit intot he Body of Christ... A Spiritual group of saints, who just happen to attend a baptist, methodist/presby/IBF labeled church...

So God has some of His saints scattered throughout various local churches/denominations/independent no churches!
It is truly a nice, sentimental, traditional, wishy-washy feel-good idea about Biblical ecclesiology. But that is where it ends. Note--No scripture, no appeal to the Bible whatsoever, but only opinion. It is not a scriptural view and cannot be substantiated by the Bible. So why do you keep repeating this unbiblical mantra?
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
It is truly a nice, sentimental, traditional, wishy-washy feel-good idea about Biblical ecclesiology. But that is where it ends. Note--No scripture, no appeal to the Bible whatsoever, but only opinion. It is not a scriptural view and cannot be substantiated by the Bible. So why do you keep repeating this unbiblical mantra?


The Bible states in hebrews that God has the "Church of the First Born" ...

The Bible states that there is ONE Body, ONE faith ONE Baptism ONE Lord etc

Jesus is THE head OF HIS BODY, which entails ALL of those who have been baptized by the HS and placed in there spiritually...


Jesus said that HIS CHURCH would be called out of this World, ALL who would place faith in Him...

God does NOT see local assemblies, he sees The Body/Bride of Christ!

That is per the Bible!
 
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jbh28

Active Member
I haven't seen any.
that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Since an assembly can only be local and not universal the point is moot. There is no such thing as a universal church. Try family of God. The ordinances were never given to the family of God.
Repetition of an unsubstantiated statement does not substantiate it.
His what?? The family of God is growing numerically.
Christ is growing his assembly?? The statement doesn't even make sense unless you put "assembly" in the plural. Each Biblical assembly should be growing but sadly that is not the case. It never has been. True Christianity has always been in the minority suffering for the sake of Christ. Christ laid down his life for us all. If you want to debate Acts 20:28, Paul speaking to the assembly at Ephesus, particularly the elders who came from Miletus, I will get into it with you.
Yes, he was speaking to a local church, but about the universal church.
The family of God is made of all believers.
There is no such thing as a universal assembly.
Oh, so believers will never assemble together?

You live in a house with your family.
Where is your universal house?
Not the same, nice try

Words have meaning. We are not at liberty to change the meaning of words just to hold on to pet theologies, sentimental ideas. That is wrong and does injustice to the Word of God.
Just cool your self off. Obviously I hit a nerve with you. There is a universal church. You can say there isn't, but that doesn't make it so. It's all the believers. Read Acts 28:28(forgot about that one before), Ephesians 5, Matthew 16:18. They are not speaking about one specific local church but about the Church, all believers.

Yes, words have meanings and we are using the meaning just fine. Just as I pointed out and you ignored, just because we are not assembled together at the very moment doesn't mean we are not a church.

DHK said:
Where do you work?
Does your company make you work 24 hours a day. Is it still a company when business hours are over? Or does it cease being a company until the next time it meets when it opens its doors on the next business day? When you are not present at your company does that mean you are no longer an employee of your company? Do they take you off the payroll when you have a sick day?
Your company works (as far as you are concerned) in one place in one city. You can only be there when the doors are open for business. The company is not universal.
You didn't get it at all did you. sorry if my illustration when over your head, or rather you chose to mock it because you know I'm correct.

My point was that your church, your local church, is still a church when you are there and whether the people are there or not. You said the universal church cannot be a church because we are not right not all assembled together. I countered that your church is still a church when you are not assembled together.
 

jbh28

Active Member
It is truly a nice, sentimental, traditional, wishy-washy feel-good idea about Biblical ecclesiology. But that is where it ends. Note--No scripture, no appeal to the Bible whatsoever, but only opinion. It is not a scriptural view and cannot be substantiated by the Bible. So why do you keep repeating this unbiblical mantra?

Look, please stop statements like this. It's uncalled for. I've quoted Scripture already so to say that we are not using Scripture is false. You sound like you are having a bad day.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
The Bible states in hebrews that God has the "Church of the First Born" ...
CONTEXT:
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Hebrews 12:22-23)
--It is a heavenly scene.
Yes there will be an assembly (the word for church) in heaven. That is the only place where we are all assembled together, and it is the only place big enough!!
The Bible states that there is ONE Body, ONE faith ONE Baptism ONE Lord etc
I will guarantee, that as you read our statement of faith and our constitution it will not be ONE and the same as yours. This was addressed to church at Ephesus, not any one-world-wide universal church. There is no such thing. However, every local church ought to be so unified. Every local church is a body; has one faith, has only one baptism. It is not that way all over the world, and you know it. Do you have the same baptism as believing Presbyterians?
Jesus is THE head OF HIS BODY, which entails ALL of those who have been baptized by the HS and placed in there spiritually...
Your philosophy. You don't have any scripture to back it up.
Jesus said that HIS CHURCH would be called out of this World, ALL who would place faith in Him...
Demonstrate it through Scripture.
God does NOT see local assemblies, he sees The Body/Bride of Christ!
That is ironic.
Paul went on three missionaries journeys and established over 100 churches. Was he out of the will of God?
Every epistle is written to a local church or to a pastor of a local church? (local church still not important)?
Jesus himself addressed seven local churches in Revelation chapters two and three? I suppose Jesus was out of God's will too? Don't you believe Jesus is God? But God doesn't see local assemblies you say??
That is per the Bible!
No, that is your flawed interpretation of the Bible.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I haven't seen any Scripture that supports the universal church theory, and when I have it usually refers to something else and I point it out.
Yes, he was speaking to a local church, but about the universal church.
First, the word "church" never existed, much less the concept of "universal church." They spoke Greek, remember? The word is ekklesia, "assembly." He was not teaching them about a universal anything. As Christ died and shed his blood for them at Ephesus so he did for every local assembly (that is founded on the Bible), just as Christ, by the power of his Holy Spirit dwells in every believer though there be but one Christ.
Oh, so believers will never assemble together?
Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.
1. All believers will never assemble on this earth.
2. All believers will assemble in heaven.
3. Groups of believers will assemble as the Lord commands us in various assemblies, local assemblies that we call today "churches."
Just cool your self off. Obviously I hit a nerve with you. There is a universal church. You can say there isn't, but that doesn't make it so. It's all the believers.
Repeating this rant won't make it true. You can assert it as much as you want but like I said, you can't change the meaning of words. Words have meanings, and we have no right to change their meanings. An assembly is an assembly and cannot be made universal no matter how hard you try.
Read Acts 28:28(forgot about that one before), Ephesians 5, Matthew 16:18. They are not speaking about one specific local church but about the Church, all believers.
I have read them all, and there is no reason why not a single one of them cannot be translated "assembly" as Young's literal and Darby's translation do. Assemblies are not universal and do not contain all believers. If you would study the subject out with a more open mind you might come to a different conclusion, but you have been brainwashed ever since you have become a Christian that this is the way it must be.
Yes, words have meanings and we are using the meaning just fine. Just as I pointed out and you ignored, just because we are not assembled together at the very moment doesn't mean we are not a church.
Yes, and just because you are not at work at this very moment does not mean your company doesn't exist. Your logic makes no sense.
You didn't get it at all did you. sorry if my illustration when over your head, or rather you chose to mock it because you know I'm correct.

My point was that your church, your local church, is still a church when you are there and whether the people are there or not. You said the universal church cannot be a church because we are not right not all assembled together. I countered that your church is still a church when you are not assembled together.
Your illustration makes sense only for a local church.
My illustration makes sense only for a local church.
The company will exist whether you are present or not. It doesn't disappear if you are not present, and you don't cease to be an employee if you are absent for a day or two. But the company assembles; it is local; it can be seen with the visible eye; it is not invisible.

You cannot apply those characteristics to an invisible universal church that cannot be seen, has no function, cannot gather, cannot assemble, has no purpose, and simply is a figment of people's imagination.
It contradicts the very meaning of the word "assembly," a word in which you have to oppose and then change the meaning to make it fit your concept. What is the function of the universal church? It has none.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
CONTEXT:
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Hebrews 12:22-23)
--It is a heavenly scene.
Yes there will be an assembly (the word for church) in heaven. That is the only place where we are all assembled together, and it is the only place big enough!!

I will guarantee, that as you read our statement of faith and our constitution it will not be ONE and the same as yours. This was addressed to church at Ephesus, not any one-world-wide universal church. There is no such thing. However, every local church ought to be so unified. Every local church is a body; has one faith, has only one baptism. It is not that way all over the world, and you know it. Do you have the same baptism as believing Presbyterians?
Y

bible states through the Apostle paul there is ONE Body, comprimised of ALL believers in jesus, ONE faith, oper Jude "once and for all delivered to thefaith" the teaching of jesus and the Apostles, and ONE baptism that when the HS places ALL of us sopiritually into Christ at rebirth, and presby/Baptists/methodist who are saved ALL have this!




our philosophy. You don't have any scripture to back it up.

Demonstrate it through Scripture
.


Already have!


That is ironic.


Paul went on three missionaries journeys and established over 100 churches. Was he out of the will of God?

No, as the Church of Christ is made up of individual bodies, local groups who added ALL together comprise the Church/Body of Christ...

So your Church body and mine 2 'fingers" connected to the total Body at large in the World!



Every epistle is written to a local church or to a pastor of a local church? (local church still not important)?
J

Very important, as the Lord establishes local branches/chapters of His true church across the world!


esus himself addressed seven local churches in Revelation chapters two and three? I suppose Jesus was out of God's will too? Don't you believe Jesus is God? But God doesn't see local assemblies you say??[/QUOTE

God 'sees" local church bodies and is in their midst when they gather to worship/preatch/trach jesus, just saying that the Body/Church is ALL those local assemblies worldwide combined, some called baptist, some presby, some methodist, some Free church etc

God even has a remnant saved among groups like RCC despite their false teachings!


]No, that is your flawed interpretation of the Bible.
 

jbh28

Active Member
I haven't seen any Scripture that supports the universal church theory, and when I have it usually refers to something else and I point it out.
First, the word "church" never existed, much less the concept of "universal church." They spoke Greek, remember?
Irrelevant to my point.
The word is ekklesia, "assembly." He was not teaching them about a universal anything. As Christ died and shed his blood for them at Ephesus so he did for every local assembly (that is founded on the Bible), just as Christ, by the power of his Holy Spirit dwells in every believer though there be but one Christ.
so for the church. He never mentioned their church, but said church, singular. He died for the entire church, not just the one in Ephesians.

Did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.
That's your argument against mine. Otherwise you are misrepresenting me. I didn't say that you said it either. Learn to read. I asked a question based on what you said, not that you said it.

1. All believers will never assemble on this earth.
true
2. All believers will assemble in heaven
dig ding ding, the church will assemble in heaven!
End of discussion. Universal church. all believers.

3. Groups of believers will assemble as the Lord commands us in various assemblies, local assemblies that we call today "churches."
true

Repeating this rant won't make it true. You can assert it as much as you want but like I said, you can't change the meaning of words. Words have meanings, and we have no right to change their meanings. An assembly is an assembly and cannot be made universal no matter how hard you try.
Stop it. read what I write. I have NEVER changed the meaning of the term. Do not accuse me of it again. Your church is still a church when they are not meeting. Just because the universal church will gather together in the end doesn't mean we cannot call it a church today.

I have read them all, and there is no reason why not a single one of them cannot be translated "assembly" as Young's literal and Darby's translation do.
universal assembly of believers. very well, doesn't matter to me. If you want to call your church a baptist assembly, that's all good too.
Assemblies are not universal and do not contain all believers.
Not you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

you said...
All believers will assemble in heaven
Can't have it both ways.

If you would study the subject out with a more open mind you might come to a different conclusion, but you have been brainwashed ever since you have become a Christian that this is the way it must be.
no need for this comment. I've not been brainwashed and it's sad that you would make such a childish comment to me.

Yes, and just because you are not at work at this very moment does not mean your company doesn't exist. Your logic makes no sense.
I never said anything of it. you said something about a company. do not mock my logic again. You have no business doing that to me.

Your illustration makes sense only for a local church.
My illustration makes sense only for a local church.
no, it makes sense for a universal church as well.

you have no business being a mod. you have a very bad attitude. you didn't address my arguments but looked foolish by attempting to mock my logic. There is a universal church(assembly if you want to call it) of all believers and we will all meet together one day. our purpose right now to to build the church through spreading the gospel. (Christ said he will build his church. Wasn't speaking about a specific local church)We currently assembly locally at local assemblies, but will assemble together in the end.

I've given you 3 passages that speak of the church as a whole and not one specific church. you chose to address one of them(and failed) and ignored the rest. you admitted that all believers will assembly together one day. you say that church means assembly. so either you are talking about of both sides of your mouth or...well, that's exactly what you are doing.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
David,
[What word or phrase would you suggest to mean "every born-again sinner - everyone in the whole world who is truly 'in Christ'?"
/QUOTE]
David...I think of that as the kingdom of God.When the church is not assembled locally it is the kingdom of God in this world. At the end unbelievers and those who offend are seperated out of it.

Here is that description from matthew 13.Individual christians are living stones who as they assemble under the preaching of the word are the church.

41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We have this discussion from time to time.
Who are the pastors and deacons of the invisible church. Where does it minister? where does it meet? :wavey:
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why on earth would you think of "the so-called Church" as including "saints" in heaven. That is pure Catholicism, and certainly not taught in the Bible. Would you pray to them also?

The word "church" simply is translated from the Greek word "ekklesia" meaning "assembly." An assembly cannot be universal in any sense of the definition until we all gather together as one assembly in heaven. That is the only time it will be "universal."

Until then we have local assemblies with local pastors, deacons, treasurers, secretaries, and those who carry on the work of the Great Commission and the two ordinances that Christ gave to the local church--baptism and the Lord's Supper.

How can those be done through any such "universal church"? They can't. It is impossible. The "universal church" defies the very definition of ekklesia or assembly. One cannot have an unassembled assembly. It is a contradiction in terminology. Two translations translate this word properly: Young's literal and Darby's translation. Read them and you will get a better sense of ecclesiology.
:applause::applause::thumbs:
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Iconoclast posted this...



...as the universal church marches on victoriously.

Saving the lost. Comforting the downtrodden, encouraging the saints, healing the sick, teaching Gods truthes, etc etc etc...

:godisgood:

You are somewhat confused again AIC. Have you done any study on the church? The Kingdom? Do you think they are identical?
Do you have one verse that demonstrates what you say?:type:
A mark of a true church is church discipline...who oversees and carries out "universal church discipline?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
God does NOT see local assemblies, he sees The Body/Bride of Christ!

That is per the Bible![/QUOTE]

JF...quite to the contrary,Jesus knows exactly what takes place or does not take place in the local churches....read the letters to the SEVEN churches.
It is not a letter to the universal church, but he wrote to local churches naming particular members....I know your works


JBH....
you said;
Your church is still a church when they are not meeting.

we hear you say.....your assembly is still an assembly,when they are not assembled.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Irrelevant to my point.
Irrelevant? How? You say you have posted Scripture that supports the universal church theory.
I said I haven't seen any Scripture posted that supports the universal church theory. The little I have seen has either been taken out of context (Heb.12:22,23 is a heavenly scene), or else it is easily refuted. So you simply call my statement "irrelevant."
so for the church. He never mentioned their church, but said church, singular. He died for the entire church, not just the one in Ephesians.
He never mentioned their church? Wrong! he did.
Yes the church was mentioned by name, singular because it was the church at Ephesus, and the teaching was applied specifically to the church at Ephesus. There is no such thing as "the entire church." You are reading into the passage your own theory instead of allowing the Scripture to speak for itself.

And from Miletus, having sent to Ephesus, he called for the elders of the assembly, (Acts 20:17)
`Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit made you overseers, to feed the assembly of God that He acquired through His own blood, (Acts 20:28)
--Now, how are these few elders from Ephesus going to feed a so-called universal church made up of all believers in the world. He is speaking only to the elders/pastors of the church at Ephesus. The verses between vs. 17-35 is Paul's speech to the Ephesian elders. He is not directing his words to anyone else but them.
God shed his blood for that assembly, the one at Ephesus. That is what it says. It goes directly contrary to what you want to believe, but that is what the Scripture says. You can't read into the Scriptures your own beliefs. Christ shed his blood for the Ephesian assembly. That is what Paul said and taught them. How else were the Ephesian elders to take Paul's words?
That's your argument against mine. Otherwise you are misrepresenting me. I didn't say that you said it either. Learn to read. I asked a question based on what you said, not that you said it.
Your exact quote:
Oh, so believers will never assemble together?
I don't know where you came up with that or why you said it.
But that is why I gave you the conclusions that I did.
dig ding ding, the church will assemble in heaven!
End of discussion. Universal church. all believers.
Someday the Antichrist and false prophet will enter onto the stage of the earth. So do you also conclude that we are now in the Tribulation. A future event does not cause a present event. Again, a logical breakdown.
There will be a universal church/assembly in heaven--when all believers will be able to assemble in one place together. That cannot happen now. It is not a present reality, it is a future event. In the present it should be evident that an unassembled assembly is an impossibility--the adjective contradicting the noun.
Stop it. read what I write. I have NEVER changed the meaning of the term. Do not accuse me of it again. Your church is still a church when they are not meeting. Just because the universal church will gather together in the end doesn't mean we cannot call it a church today.
Let's take your last statement and state it using proper terminology.
Just because the universal assembly which cannot assemble will gather together in the end, doesn't mean we cannot call it an assembly that cannot assemble today.
It doesn't make sense. Only God is omnipresent. Why are you trying to be. A church is local, visible, does things for the community around it, has its own pastor and deacons, cares for the people around it, and functions in a real existent way. You want to take this concept and turn into some mystical existential organism, not taught anywhere in the Bible, something that is totally non-functional, without purpose or design, and then say it is of God?? You try and give it Scriptural support but fail. You cannot change the meaning of words just to fit your own ideas.
assembly = congregation or assembly not universal.
universal assembly of believers. very well, doesn't matter to me. If you want to call your church a baptist assembly, that's all good too.
If you define it as universal you deliberately change the meaning of the word. Words have meanings. Just because you have a different theology does not give you the right to change the dictionary.
Not you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
No. Your misunderstanding causes you to make a false accusation.
An assembly is an assembly. Right now "churches" can only assemble locally. There is no such thing as a universal assembly in this present age!
After the rapture, or when we all get to heaven, then we will all be assembled together in heaven as it teaches in Heb.12:22,23. There will be a grand meeting or assembly of believers in heaven someday, but it is not now.
you said... Can't have it both ways.
Two different events. Two different assemblies.
no need for this comment. I've not been brainwashed and it's sad that you would make such a childish comment to me.
Then instead of constant arguing start looking at Scripture more objectively.
I never said anything of it. you said something about a company. do not mock my logic again. You have no business doing that to me.
No, I used a company for an illustration. Did you understand it?
you didn't address my arguments but looked foolish by attempting to mock my logic. There is a universal church(assembly if you want to call it) of all believers and we will all meet together one day.
When we all gather together one day then there will be a universal church/assembly. Until that happens God has ordained that there be local churches, and that is what he has seen fit to work through. He has given instruction through pastoral epistles, and other parts of the Scripture for this very reason.
our purpose right now to to build the church through spreading the gospel. (Christ said he will build his church. Wasn't speaking about a specific local church)We currently assembly locally at local assemblies, but will assemble together in the end.
No universal church can ever function that way. A universal church has no function. The Great Commission was given to the local church who alone can properly carry out the Great Commission. When Jesus spoke those words in Mat.16:18, note these facts:
1. The "church" age hadn't even started. It started on the day of Pentecost.
2. There was no such thing as a church that was in existence at that time.
3. Look at an accurate translation again:
`And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; (Matthew 16:18)
--The assembly that he started out with was his 12 disciples.

Now go to the end of Matthew:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)
--The Great Commission was given to the disciples which in turn was passed on to the local churches. The evangelization of the entire world was left in the hands of 12 men. Then Jesus ascended into heaven. What if they failed? Christ had no back up plan. They were to go, teach, (make disciples), baptize, keep on teaching. In that process would be the establishment of many churches as was evident in the work of Paul.

That first assembly was 12 men.
The next one was over 3,000 and growing daily.

I've given you 3 passages that speak of the church as a whole and not one specific church. you chose to address one of them(and failed) and ignored the rest. you admitted that all believers will assembly together one day. you say that church means assembly. so either you are talking about of both sides of your mouth or...well, that's exactly what you are doing.
I have addressed as many as I remember you giving me.
If you don't accept what I give you that can't be helped.
 

percho

Well-Known Member
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and-I moreover unto-thee I-forth to-which-a-one thou thou-be a-Petros, and upon unto-the-one-this unto-the-one unto-a-rockiness I-shall-house-build-unto of-me to-the-one to-a-calling-out-unto, and gates of-a-hades not they-shall-force-hold-down of-it;

From Westcott & Hort GNT - Literal Translation


Where is assembly found in this verse.

ἐκκλησία Does it mean assembly or out called
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
ἐκκλησία Does it mean assembly or out called
The meaning is assembly.
The etymology is "called out." Often the etymology gives us insight into the word and the history but it is not necessary the meaning. One might gather that it is a "called-out assembly." But the fact is that the word simply means "assembly" or "congregation.'

An example to help.
The word "Sunday" simply means "first day of the week" to most of us.
The etymology of the word: sun + day = the day we worship the sun. That gives us some indication of the history of the word, how it came to be. But that is certainly not the meaning now. We don't define words according to it etymology.
 
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