just How Do the DoG Provide "sinner an excuse?"

Excellent post and attitude. Blessings

 

Let's include "nixing" the pejorative use of "your philosophy" and "carnal example" and other such.

 

Total Spiiritual inability is a false doctrine, but it is true that all our righteousness, or "good works" are as filthy rags to God. What Calvinism does is equate the two, since it is "good" to seek God and put our trust in Christ, we cannot do that because it is "good." But this argument, like the rest of Calvinism, is a phony as a 3 dollar bill.

What the Bible actually says is God credits our faith, even though it is a filthy rag from God's perspective, as righteousness. Thus, the Bible teaches we can seek God and put our faith, as worthless as it might be, in Christ. Therefore, Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine and the filthy rag argument is ... well just another filthy rag.

 

Unconditional individual election to salvation is also a false doctrine. James 2:5 tells anyone who reads with understanding, that God chooses those who are (1) poor in the eyes of the world, (2) rich in faith, and (3) heirs to the promise made to those who love God. Highly conditional election is what the Bible actually teaches.

 

The Calvinist view of Limited Atonement is false doctrine. Christ became the propitiation for the whole world, or means of salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2. When John uses the term translated "world" he is referring to mankind or the corrupt system of mankind.

 

The Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible Grace, or whatever they are calling it this week, is false doctrine. Matthew 23:13 teaches men were entering heaven, and therefore according to the false doctrine of Irresistible Grace had been regenerated, quickened, etc, but then those supposedly altered men are turned aside by false teachers. Therefore the grace needed to enter heaven is not irresistible.

 

In summary, four of the five DoG are clearly unbiblical, and are supported by rewriting scripture by redefining the meaning of words. Choice includes the meaning of non-choice, world means elect here and non elect there, and so it goes.

BTW, Jesus said things happen by chance, teaching God does not exhaustively determine everything, as so Calvinists assert.

 

Great posts Van

I believe that even though God is already in the future, and He therefore knows the future, that He still allows us to make choices and control our own lives.

In other words, God knows what choices I will make, but He still allows me to make those choices.

If Calvinism is true, then there sure are alot of unneeded instructions in the Bible.

John

 

This point is one of my biggest issues when discussing things with a calvinist. I'd like to make a list of these instances where words seem to be redefined and see if I can get some clarity.

 

I am not a calvinist but this is clearly a scriptural doctrine

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Do you have scripture to back this up?

 

so you have born again people in hell?

 

Here is the entire list:


The end.


Yep, no verses to match that false teaching up. "chance" wow! Can't believe I saw that.

 

I'm not avoiding it, I'm drawing a distinction. The people you mentioned that responded to a command they could not carry out were physically affected. Repentance is a change of mind. Someone changing their mind happens quite frequently, and is easily carried out by the person.

I'll counter your examples with the woman with the blood issue, had been ill for 12 years. She fought through crowds, willingly seeking out the Lord. She touched his robe and was immediately healed. Now if I were to use this physical action and physical ailment as a metaphor for spiritual things, I see that this woman: 1. Sought the Lord, 2. Had the ability to come to him on her own, 3. Was healed by God through actions she took. I think that violates a few tenets of Calvinism. My point is, let's not be quick to spiritualize historical events and try to apply them to theology.

Of course I do not welcome things that I see as untruths.

 

The problem is your "application" comes from your point of view of your theology. So it twists what we believe into something else. Those on the Calvinistic side vs those on the other side come at this at 2 angles. When you look at our doctrine from your angle, it will have these "problems." You are looking at our doctrine with at a faulty premise.

You also will never want to.

God rejects no one. No Calvinist would say that God rejects one that comes to him. Also, the gospel is the means by which God saves people.

Why do you eat? You will die the day that God has decided(unless you deny the sovereignty of God) so why eat? (actually, a Ryrie illustration.)

Get over it. You are still demonstrating your lack of understanding of the Calvinist doctrine here.

What you are describing is extremely hyper Calvinism or fatalism, not Calvinism.

To pay for our sins.

 

We agree with this verse. The question is: How does God make his mysterious spiritual truths known to man? In other words, what means has God chosen to make His mysteries known to man?

1. A supernatural internal and irresistible working by which the mind just knows spiritual mysteries.

OR

2. God has chosen messengers (like Paul) to be authoritative apostles. They are inspired by the Holy Spirit to write down and preach these mysteries in the language of man (which is happening for the very first time as Paul is writing this very letter in question). The gospel truth was first revealed in this manner and some believed it while others did not. The brethren in Corinth, believed the gospel, which had been spiritually discerned for them, but they were still not accepting of the "deep things of God" (the meat) because they were being "carnal." (see versus following)

 

I think it is instructive to look at the following exchange for it illustrates the Calvinist method of parsing words and phrases. It also shows that if you can't explain Total Depravity you can't have the rest of TULIP.

And there you have it. You have a total inability to want to seek God, to improve your spiritual state, furthermore you don't even want to do these things. Yet, if only you were to come to God, He would save you!

If you like this sort of gymnastics of logic and language you might like Calvinism.

 

Hello Greektim,

GT........so if I understand you correctly.....you see nothing wrong with these statements found in this thread?? You correctly reacted against many of these falsehoods in posts...19,21,25,52,59,65,68,69....but now you say you are partly to blame......and that when i react to these falsehoods with some saying God causes sin...that I am pontificating?
Read these again...and think it over!

You are exactly right Winman. Calvinists love their doubletalk. They've taken something that's so simple (the Gospel) that a child an easily understand it and twisted it into a false religion [using false religion implies the person does not have salvation which is against board rules] that you need a doctorate to defend it. [Deleted due to implication of Calvinist not being a Christian which is against board rules.]

[QUOTECalvinists say the unelect will be justly condemned for their sins. If Calvinism is true this is incredibly false. If a person is born a sinner and only has the ability to sin, it is wicked and unjust to punish them for doing the only thing they are able to do.
][/QUOTE]

[QUOTEI agree that sin is why people go to hell, but in calvinism, the god of calvinism is responsible for people's sin. ][/QUOTE]

GT......in post 21 you make this statement....
You don't preach calvinism at all??? Sure you do.....you might not refer to the terms ...but if you preach the word you do.
It seems politically correct to state it this way,,,but are you being honest about it?
If you know it as the truth of God...why would you not want people to believe it when you say this...

If you have come to truth,you should preach sounding a clear distinct note describing that truth scripturally. Not try and sneek up on people straining to avoid any terms that might cause them to think....oh no pastor tim is a calvinist......The fear of man bringeth a snare!

 

Seems that to some calvinism is more important than the Word itself. They turn on their own and devour them.

 

That's correct. Of course we are talking about something that's not going to happen. The point is that when one says that Calvinist believe that people will come to God and be rejected, that's a totally untrue picture of what is believed. What we believe is that the non-elect people will never want to come to Christ. It's not that people are wanting to come and cannot come. It's not that people are coming and being rejected.