ANY here hold to/teach 'Lordship salvation?"

Funny thing is, people want to be saved from hell, so they seek a Savior to do that, then live in sin.

Then in latter years, when partying, and sinful lifestyles wane away to the aging process, maturity, and depletion of hormonal levels that contribute to living out of control, they then start to look like "decent citizens" and seek morality and behavior modification.

These same call those who look at the necessity of Him being both Lord and Savior as "legalists."

No one who falls under "their" rendition of "Lordship Salvation" believes that works are part of salvation. They simply believe He took over their lives, saving them from their sins, not just from the consequences thereof. They also believe that the things they practice follow those who are true believers.

 

It is not Lordship Salavation a la Paul Washer vs. Easy Believism.
I believe in neither. One doesn't have to believe in either one.
That is like the false dichotomy so many here draw between Calvinism and Arminianism. If you are not a Calvinist then you are an Arminian. NOT! There are other options.

It is about Biblical salvation. Biblical salvation does not take either option.

 

Biblical salvation requires a focus on Christ as Lord:

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


New a true Christians can and do understand what immediate devotion to God is:

Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor. And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold."
Luk 19:9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham.

Godly biblocall repentance has a very specific fruit of its own:

Luk_3:8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

Washer, who is a Calvinist, does not hold to a works based faith. Many non cals make the same mistake cals do in that you try to discipher the mechanics of salvation to the point that you separate things into a chronological list. Cals say regen comes before salvation. Some non cals like yourself say that devotion comes after salvation. Neither is true. They are all one in the same. You try to separate things that are not separated in scripture. Do not lable someone with this works based salvation when you cannot clearly back up the separation in scripture.

Easy believism only looks for a get out of hell free card. Which is the exact way your posts come across.

 

I said...

And Mandym said...

The scriptures make clear that the "Lordship Salvation" message is in great error, and has done great damage to many, many christians who get sucked into it.

Spoken as a true disciple of the insidious Lordship salvation message.

In due time the Lordship Salvation message will "eat your lunch".

When that occures, and you are ready to give up the treadmill of self effort, the living waters of Gods grace will be there to bring peace back to your christian walk.

God bless.

 

Never denied that it did.

There is only one kind of Christian.

Zacchaeus was a Jew. It is not wise to use him as an example of Biblical salvation.

Like Zaccheus (a son of Abraham), this also speaks of "children of Abraham" and is also addressed to the Jews. It is not a good example for Biblical salvation. John the Baptist preached repentance, but it is not the repentance that Biblical salvation requires.

Notice you are the one with the chronological list here, and it is not even Biblical. You can't show one verse of Scripture to back up that statement. As your statement goes: "Cals say..." Not the Bible says.."

Ergo, you have no devotion to the Lord.

You are the one that separated them, not me.

It is not Scripture that backs up heresy. It is Paul Washer's own teachings. I have already pointed that out to you. When one teaches anything other then salvation is by grace through faith they are wrong. Washer teaches something other than that, therefore he is wrong. It is that simple.

And I said I didn't believe in that, so you have posted a false allegation. Why?

 

:thumbsup:

I also agree with all you say here.

 

Paul Washer is both a LORDSHIP adherant, AND a Calvinist???


YIKES!!!

Thats one confused puppy.

 

As is MacArthur. Most LS'ers are calvinists from my experience.

 

Best post on this thread!

 

My introduction to Paul Washer was watching a sermon he preached to a youth evangelism conference. Here is an auditorium packed with 5,000 young Christians eager to get fired up for going out into the world and preach the Gospel and his opening remark is, "A hundred years from now the great majority of people in this building will be in hell."

 

He sounds very confused.

 

All who hold to TULIP are Lordship Salvationists as the P stands for Perseverance of the Saints. They believe only those who persevere or endure to the end are saved.

They will deny this, but perseverance can have no other meaning.

 

No. You do.

He sounds on track with the 80% in church are probably lost, which is against easy-believism.

 

Perhaps instead of observing, you should have obeyed?

Jesus preached the same sort of message in Matthew 7.

 

I posted...

YIKES!!!

Thats one confused puppy.

Un.....be.....leave...able

...and yet I am not surprised

 

Yes. How dare Washer tell them the truth.

 

You will have to clarify which church you are talking about. Your own? 80% of your own membership are probably lost? You have lots of work to do.

 

No, I am not confused. I am making conclusions based on the information given me. First, I don't believe in easy-believism, and second, when someone gives information I take the meanings of given words seriously. Given that premise lets see what the facts are.

1. There were about 5,000 Christians present. These would be born again believers.
2. They were eager. They wanted to serve the Lord, specifically in the area of evangelism--carrying out the Great Commission.
3. Paul Washer said that the great majority of these believers would end up in hell.

Conclusion:
Paul Washer doesn't believe in the eternal security of the believer.
Paul Washer believes in Lordship salvation which is a works-based salvation, accordingly one can lose their salvation because of their works. They don't persevere to the end.
Being a Calvinist he teaches things contrary to his own faith. See above.
He is very confused.

 

uh no its not. Not even close. You are drawing your own flawed conclusion out of your intentional ignorance.

 

Then correct me. Tell me where I am wrong.