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ANY here hold to/teach 'Lordship salvation?"
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Your link doesn't prove he said it. He doesn't believe what you want him to say, or think he has said.
Your link doesn't prove he said it. He doesn't believe what you want him to say, or think he has said.
No it doesn't.
Your link doesn't prove he said it. He doesn't believe what you want him to say, or think he has said.
What is he saying then? I have asked him several times to explain specifically what he believes we must do to be saved, but he never answers.
We either continue to sin or we stop sinning altogether, there is no middle ground. If we must absolutely stop sinning to be saved, we are ALL in big trouble.
How often are we allowed to sin in his view and be saved? Once a day, a week, a year?
I have run into folks like this before, they can never answer these questions. But one thing is certain, they always believe they are doing good enough, and that we aren't.
One simply needs to read from that point forward in the Repentance thread. FreeatLast is asked repeatedly, "Do you sin?" and his answer is to quote:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit(practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
Then FreeAtLast says it would take too long for him to explain what he means by posting this verse over and over again. Then he advises anyone that wants to know what he believes on this verse to use the search function. Finally the thread is closed and FAL never answered the question.
I remember this exchange quite clearly because it was at that time that I put FAL in my killfile.
Yep Winman, you nailed it.
You seem to be equating occasional failure as Christians with an intentional lifestyle. They are not the same. That is the difference. Intentionally living a lifestyle in rebellion to God.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Your killfile consists of those who blow holes in your errors that you simply cannot handle. It's called pusillanimity.
He said practicing sin, which is exactly what the passage means.
This is his habit both in the theological forum and the politics and news forums. But that does not prop up your point. You failed reality when you asked the question "Do you sin?" that is a straw man. And rather than deal with that verse yourself you place all your attention on him. Ignore him and deal with the verse he posted. I believe you are having difficulty with it.
I didn't ask him that question. I believe DHK asked him that. Later on in the thread FAL admits that Christians will sin 'from time to time'.
LOL! Yeah, I've got big problems with that verse.
Back to the reason I joined this thread...
HankD said that Lordship salvation leads to the idea of sinless perfection. You said you've never seen that. I posted a link to a previous discussion where FAL refused to answer the question of whether or not he sins. Then he stated that a believer may sin 'from time to time' or that a believer should naturally 'live holy with an occasional sin'. To me, that is FAL striving for sinless perfection. I'm fairly certain that every Christian sins EVERY DAY, whether in thought, word, or deed.
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Well it is not hard to understand at all'''
we are not sinless.....but we sin.....less.......we do not practice sin...
there are no christian thieves, no christian liars, no christian sodomites, no christian mass murderers:thumbs:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Nope winman, you've missed it.
You're also misrepresenting freeatlast, as he has thoroughly answered you, so no need to pretend he hasn't answer your rather simplistic questions. The problem is you cannot understand the truth he's presented you with.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Winman,
Hope you got that. You ask "simplistic" questions and you simply cannot understand the truth. You are just too simplistic Winman to understand the truth when it is presented to you.
PS, I hope you understand my textual inflection.
Hope you got that. You ask "simplistic" questions and you simply cannot understand the truth. You are just too simplistic Winman to understand the truth when it is presented to you.
PS, I hope you understand my textual inflection.
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No, he simply said Christians do not practice sin. That is open to wide interpretation. Is a person who sins once a day practicing sin? Once a week, once a month?
I worked with a fellow who believed like this years ago, he said there was an elder who had not sinned in years in his church.
One day I bet him he could not go 24 hours without sinning. He said, "Oh, that is easy! I can easily go 24 hours without sinning!"
I answered, "Well, the scriptures say boasting is a sin, and you just boasted."
He turned so red in the face I thought he might take a swing at me. He never boasted about his church to me again.
And that is my experience with these folks. They always insinuate that you are a hypocrite and unsaved, and boast of their own holiness. But if you watch them, they are just as sinful as everyone else.
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Sure it is. What ever is most convenient for you to maintain your point. But t fails to address the real issue with regard to this thread. But it is not open to wide interpretation in the passage. It is very narrow and addresses a specific point. Could you address the actual scripture passage.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You clearly do not know what practicing sin means within the context of the Johannine Epistles at hand.
I'd suggest: 1) Stop once and for all trusting your own thoughts 2) Read some others who know what the Bible means, not just what it says, contrary to yourself 3) Change your position to a Biblical position on this and all matters 4) Know what practicing sin means within author intent, context, setting &c. 5) Continue this type of trend. 6) Stop watching others to see how sinful they are compared to, say, you.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Yep.
He's avoiding the point that was clearly made, then judges the one making it as "self-righteous" or "holier-than-thou" by implication.
The fact is? There are actually some who literally are "holier" than we are.
OK, lets look at the verse.
1 Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
First, this does not say practice sin, it just says sin. If so, none of us is born of God, because we all sin.
Rather, what I believe this verse means is that a believer cannot sin while being led of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot sin, and when we obey the Spirit, we cannot sin either.
But we also still have our corrupt flesh that wars against the Spirit. If we yield to the flesh we sin.
I am not in disagreement with FAL that we are not supposed to sin. He is correct. And I would agree that someone who continually sins is probably not saved. But I leave that up to God, only God sees the heart.
But I have never known any Christian that does not sin on occasion. If you walk by a person and do not tell them the gospel, haven't you broken Christ's command to tell every creature? (Mark 16:15)
Have you preached the gospel to every person you have met? I haven't to my shame.
So, be careful about accusing others of being sinners.
1Jn_3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. (ESV)
Sorry but your personal interpretation is based on Warren like choosing of scripture and misinterpretation. That is exactly what it says.
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