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Is God through with Isreal, based on this?

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revmwc

Well-Known Member
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

Have the ordinances of the Sun, Moon and Stars that divide sea passed away? God said through Jeremiah if that happened then the seed of Israel (Jacob) would cease to be a nation. If the heaven can be measured, has it been, then he would cast off the seed of Israel for all that they have done. Don't hink the stars have been totally numbered by man nor have the Sun, Moon and Stars ceased to be and the moon still controls the tides of the sea. So God is not through with Nation Israel based on Jeremiah 31,
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
revmwc said:
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

Have the ordinances of the Sun, Moon and Stars that divide sea passed away? God said through Jeremiah if that happened then the seed of Israel (Jacob) would cease to be a nation. If the heaven can be measured, has it been, then he would cast off the seed of Israel for all that they have done. Don't hink the stars have been totally numbered by man nor have the Sun, Moon and Stars ceased to be and the moon still controls the tides of the sea. So God is not through with Nation Israel based on Jeremiah 31,
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Depends IF one holds that God did NOT reject the Jewish nation/peoples and applied all of their OT promises towards the Church, which for today to those holding that view is modern day Isreal to God would be the Church!

I personally hold to a dispy view on how God views this, as He still has plans forisreal today, and for the Church also!
 
R

Ruiz

New Member
Jeremiah 31 has essentially been fulfilled. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is seen in Hebrews 8 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Ruiz said:
Jeremiah 31 has essentially been fulfilled. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is seen in Hebrews 8 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
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Partially fulfilled to the Church now, as we are under the New Covenant relationship, but when Jesus returns again to earth, than Isreal alive at that time will receive their aspect of this fulfillment, and so ALL will be under the bless promised here by God!
 
R

revmwc

Well-Known Member
Ruiz said:
Jeremiah 31 has essentially been fulfilled. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is seen in Hebrews 8 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
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So the Sun, Moon and stars and their ordinances no longer exist? Why do we still see them? Are they a dillusion or metaphoric?
 
plain_n_simple

plain_n_simple

Active Member
I believe the body of Christ is Israel. There is no longer Jew or Gentile in God's eyes but a spiritual Jew of the heart, a heart that is circumcised. I also think the nation Israel is still blessed and has a role in the end, and will be grafted back into the tree. I'm careful about reading the prophets because Jesus said the law and prophets were until John the Baptist, since then the kingdom is preached.
 
R

Ruiz

New Member
revmwc said:
So the Sun, Moon and stars and their ordinances no longer exist? Why do we still see them? Are they a dillusion or metaphoric?
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This is poetic language in the Hebrew which brings about an if... then clause. This is not a "when... then" clause. Thus, the answer is basically that this is relaying a theology about God, not a happening that will occur.
 
P

preacher4truth

Active Member
It's pretty much all over folks. This is the kingdom now, of peace, justice, and righteousness reigning, and eternal in nature. I saw a lion and a lamb laying together too. It's beautiful isn't it?


He's coming back literally, and physically as He promised. Don't be deceived.

:wavey:
 
W

Winman

Active Member
The twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel mentioned in Revelation cannot be the church. These are believers, but they are also physical descendants of Abraham.

Jesus did not come in 70 A.D., when Jesus returns it will be to defend and deliver Israel, not destroy it.

Zech 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
 
R

Ruiz

New Member
Winman said:
The twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel mentioned in Revelation cannot be the church. These are believers, but they are also physical descendants of Abraham.

Jesus did not come in 70 A.D., when Jesus returns it will be to defend and deliver Israel, not destroy it.

Zech 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
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The 12,000 is a symbolic number and does not need to be physical Israel, but some who do have this as physical also see Revelation as a historic account, not necessarily a future event.
Jesus did not come in 70 A.D.
 
R

Robert Snow

New Member
preacher4truth said:
It's pretty much all over folks. This is the kingdom now, of peace, justice, and righteousness reigning, and eternal in nature. I saw a lion and a lamb laying together too. It's beautiful isn't it?


He's coming back literally, and physically as He promised. Don't be deceived.

:wavey:
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I also saw a lion laying with a lamb. Unfortunately the lamb was laying in the lion's mouth.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
plain_n_simple said:
I believe the body of Christ is Israel. There is no longer Jew or Gentile in God's eyes but a spiritual Jew of the heart, a heart that is circumcised. I also think the nation Israel is still blessed and has a role in the end, and will be grafted back into the tree. I'm careful about reading the prophets because Jesus said the law and prophets were until John the Baptist, since then the kingdom is preached.
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I believe there will be a revival and general incoming of the Jews into the Church. As for the old law system, it's gone forever:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18
 
C

convicted1

Guest
Well, in the OT, Israel was never about the nation of Israel that we have now, but rather, the descendents of Jacob(Israel). Israel now is the church.
 
Greektim

Greektim

Well-Known Member
revmwc said:
So the Sun, Moon and stars and their ordinances no longer exist? Why do we still see them? Are they a dillusion or metaphoric?
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If the church is the redefined people of God, i.e. Israel, then there is no problem. The concept of "israel" is more or less simply a reference to the covenant people of God. As pointed out, the context is all about the new covenant which has been inaugarated w/ Jesus.
 
R

revmwc

Well-Known Member
Greektim said:
If the church is the redefined people of God, i.e. Israel, then there is no problem. The concept of "israel" is more or less simply a reference to the covenant people of God. As pointed out, the context is all about the new covenant which has been inaugarated w/ Jesus.
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But the problem is the covenant people are the Isralites the descendents of Jacob. Most of the covenant theologeans speak of the church as the children of Abraham not of Jacob.

The promise was not to the church and didn't carry over to the church the promise was to the physical descendants of Israel (Jacob), and therefore the promise is to Nation Israel. The question for all who say the promise converts to the church I have a question for you. What nation does the church belong too?

Here is the scripture again Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
38 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

Notice again the promise "If those ordinances depart from before me Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever" the church is not a nation, we are Abasadors of Christ and ofthe Kingdom of Heaven but this promise speaks of Israel as a nation, a physical nation as she was in Jeremiah's time. She went into captivity in Babylon for 70 years and was brought out. She disobeyed yet again and was dispersed by the Romans and yet God says "If those ordinances depart from before me, Israel shall cease from being a nation before me for ever" what ordinances? Verse 35 states, "which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:"
Where do you see the church will cease to be a nation if the ordinances depart?
 
R

Robert Snow

New Member
Greektim said:
Wolf and a lamb... learn your Bible!
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If your idea of learning the bible includes your arrogance, I will pass.

I know I don't possess the great biblical knowledge you have, but I do the best I can. Also, I misspeak sometimes, unlike you who obviously never makes a mistake.
 
Greektim

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Robert Snow said:
If your idea of learning the bible includes your arrogance, I will pass.

I know I don't possess the great biblical knowledge you have, but I do the best I can. Also, I misspeak sometimes, unlike you who obviously never makes a mistake.
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Never ever do I make a misteak ;)

the point was (which you missed)

You were being snarky w/ your comment "I saw a lion laying with a lamb." You were trying to make a point through your humor. That was fine. But if this is your method of doing so, then the humor is lost if you don't even quote correctly the passage you are citing.
 
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