I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

If I pretended to be a Calvinist, the first question I would ask is how do I know if I am elect? I know the answer I would get, "if you believe you are elect", but that would not satisfy me, because Calvinists believe a person must persevere to the end to actually know if they are elect, and I can not know that until I die. And I cannot know it even now, as I do not know how faithful you must be to persevere.

Calvin taught that God himself sends a delusion to deceive false believers called Evanescent Grace.

Calvin himself could not seem to distinguish between who was truly elect and who was not, so how am I supposed to know if I am elect? Perhaps God has sent this delusion to fool me and I only think I am elect.

So, even one minute of being a Calvinist would be far too long for me.

 

Paul was the most arrogant, non-humble man on the planet when Jesus knocked him off his high horse. I don't think a humble heart is what made Paul believe.

 

correction, you will persevere. It's not hoping you are saved. Some people will pretend to be saved, but no body will truly think they are saved and then at the last minute realize they are not elect.

 

Someone who is meek and humble is not better than anyone else, they know it.

They know they don't deserve it.

It does not matter how arrogant you are when you are called you humble yourself and give your life to Him as you are and He will change you.

He keeps the meek and humble it isn't me who chooses who He keeps

If you think you are better than anyone else than you are not to humble.

To be the worst sinner is to see yourself as not better than anyone else but worst than all sinner.

1 Corinthians 1 :
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[Jer. 9:24]

Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

I am sorry I don't want human reasoning to give me others excuses.

We can be like those in the beginning and say it the serpeant that you created that made me do it, it was the women you created that made me do it.

I can by human reason blame God for the state I am or admit and humble myself before a mighty God and come begging at His mercy seat.

2 Corinthians 12:
9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

Exactly.

Only two possible answers exist.

1. The one who "accepts" Christ is better in some way than the one who does not.

2. God did the choosing.

And by the way, even if option 1 were viable, the problem would still remain- why is he better? How did he get better? Who made him better?

 

The difference isn't that the other isn't better than the other the difference is pride and it is God said.

Daniel 10:12
Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.

2 Chronicles 16:9
For the eyes of the LORD range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. You have done a foolish thing, and from now on you will be at war.”

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, it isn't God stopping them, but their own pride.

You can't get the answer you want if it isn't true.

 

God saves because of His word says so, not because of what I believe.

I can believe I was chosen out of the world over someone else and be proud of it, and say it is God who chose but it is still a belief that i chose to believe in.

 

Yes, the ELECT will persevere, but not everyone who believes they are the elect will persevere. That is the point. If you are a Calvinist, the only way you can hope to know if you are the elect is if you do persevere. It is works salvation.

And Calvin did not say that persons will pretend to believe, he said God sends a strong delusion where many people will sincerely believe they are true believers but are not.

So, according to Calvin, even if you think you sincerely believe you have no assurance of being saved.

Calvin even said some "accept the gift of reconciliation" and yet are lost. Wow.

 

Human reasoning, trying to reason this stuff in our carnal mind isn't going to help you to the truth, only Jesus can so trust in Him not in your reasoning things out or your own understanding

 

Yes. Calvin did believe that God would enlighten some of the non-elect to a certain point and not finally save them.

But he did not say that these enlightened people had any right to think they were saved. They did not get saved.

EVERYONE who is enlightened to the point of salvation can KNOW that he is saved.

There is discrepancy among the history of Calvinists over this issue of assurance. There is no doubt. Some of the Puritans seemed to doubt that you could know for certain that you were elect.

There have been many more Calvinists who rightly recognize, on the other hand, that the truly saved, not just enlightened ones, can have assurance of their salvation.

 

No, not at all. I just refuted what you said. Don't keep repeating it. You're wrong.

 

:thumbsup:

 

The faith is given through the words of Jesus and the words about Jesus our faith is Jesus.

Jesus not me said that you trust in Him you will be saved.

My faith that came from God , if you want to say it is pride go ahead, what ever floats your boat.

It isn't pride it is faith, not because of I am better than anyone else as you assume, but because of God word.

Faith is not pride no matter what men want to tell you.

God said He will keep the meek and humble who will trust in the Lord, so yes He choose us praise Jesus