A Common Mistake In Christian Marriages.

[mont974x4]

Is she of YOUR CHURCH and us she YOUR WIFE?

Otherwise, I would suggest that you have no jurisdiction whatsoever in the matter.

If she sticks with her convictions as posted then those are not an issue.


If you want to start a thread on pastoral jurisdiction, go ahead and I'll pop in later when I have more time. It may be fruitful to discuss it without further disruption of this thread.

 

[HankD]

Is she of YOUR CHURCH and us she YOUR WIFE?

Otherwise, I would suggest that you have no jurisdiction whatsoever in the matter.

Hi GL, well she did use the indefinite article "a man" in her O/P as to whom a woman should not attempt to teach.

Let's wait and see her answer to my previous post.

HankD

 

[JoReba]

You know I don't remember any Mother's Day sermon where the ladies were called to any sort of obedience or submission. They have all been used to honor the role of women in the lives of their husbands, children, and the Church.

Maybe the OP has just had some bad luck in the sermons they have heard on the role of women in the church and in marriage?

Yes, that is a good idea.

The next time I listen to an "unlucky" sermon I will say so to the Preacher just as he concludes in the pulpit. Excellent idea. I am looking foreward to being able to help him with this wisdom.

And, Yes, we need to know what your personal experiences have been regarding Mothers' Day sermons. That is how we understand The Bible. God Bless.

 

[annsni]

Please step up with facts of Scripture about these ideas of a wife "counseling" her husband, having him "bounce ideas off of her," and the wife not being silent.

Genesis - straight from creation

2:28 - Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

2:20-24 - But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.”
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


They are one flesh.

If there is a "problem" with a wife being silent as Scripture specifies, is that "problem" God's problem for making a mistake through Apostle Paul's writings, or is it the wife's "problem" when she fails to follow Apostle Paul's Written Word of God in Corinthians? Remember, human rationalizations are not God's plan for righteousness before Him, but obedience to His agenda are what He trains Believers to pursue.

Using a foot analogy to supposedly "understand" one's husband/wife relationship is not very wise or righteous, and is not a good way to "sense" what God prefers. Wives do not intuitively "Know what is best." Apostle Paul said so because "The woman [Eve] was the one deceived."

Praise God we can always return to His Written Word for the facts. Amen.

You clearly misinterpret Scripture, bringing a direction for the church into the marriage relationship. That is a very dangerous place.

JoReba, are you married?

 

[annsni]

If Priscilla taught Apollos anything she was disobeying God's Word through Apostle Paul's instructions regarding women and wives not teaching men.

Wow - yet Paul applauded her. Hmmmm.

 

[mont974x4]

Paul also approved of Phoebe and told people to listen to her.

Rom 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;
Rom 16:2 that you receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and that you help her in whatever matter she may have need of you; for she herself has also been a helper of many, and of myself as well.
Rom 16:3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,
Rom 16:4 who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles;

 

[JoReba]

There is also no scripture which commands it to use the toilet. Man, what a predicament you are in.:laugh:

I am not in a predicament regarding the toilet. Lol. We have three bathrooms in our nice house. Thank you for your concerns.

We can easily see that God's Word prioirtizes both Itself and the lives of Believers. Hebrews 4:12-13 clearly shows this as it states that "The Word of God is sharper than any twoedged sword, to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow." That means God's Word clearly and easily makes distinctions for us regarding what is of temporal significance, compared to what is of eternal significance. And, it clearly and easily makes distinctions for us regarding what is essential for physical life and what is merely optional for physical life.

Going to the toilet is essential for physical life because God's Word says in Proverbs 31 a virtuous wife feeds her household. Jesus fed the multitudes, and cooked breaakfast for His Disciples. He served them a Sader Supper. Jesus did it very well. And, part of the physical nurishment process in all of life is elimination and excretion. Lol.

If you feel like you still lack wisdom about going to the toilet, God has promised His Wisdom to whoever asks Him, according to James 1:5 KJV:

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to allmen liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

Praise God for His Love which is available for all of our smallest problems. Amen.

 

[JoReba]

Hi JoReba,

Welcome aboard.

Your profile says you are "a fun loving girl" yet in this post you say that a woman "is not to attempt to usurp the authority of a man" and "is to learn in silence" and "is not to teach a man".

Are you not going against your own pronouncements by attempting to teach us men the scriptural "common mistake" which perchance some of us are making?

Or is it only your husband (should you have one) that you are forbidden to teach?

There are many pastors and deacons and men of church leadership here on the BB, are you attempting to teach them?

Or since you have claimed to be "a fun loving girl" are you just funnin' with us?

HankD

So, are you saying a woman indeed is to learn in silence, and is not to teach a man? Please instruct me.

In doing so, please remember that the pronouncements I have made are not "mine," but are God's pronouncements from Scripture. Do you understand that distinction? I am sure you do, and I have Faith Believing you will keep it in mind during any further discussions where OPs quote Scripture without adding subjective ideas.

God Bless your gender and all of the inherent God given capacities and authority within your gender. Amen.

 

[JoReba]

JoReba, I'm afraid you've stumbled into the wrong forum. This is BAPTIST board. Men who treat their wives the way you describe are called Muslims. :laugh:

Let me help you with what you stated you fear.

Do Baptist men treat their wives as Apostle Paul specified in I Timothy Ch. 2? If they do not, should they? Men who treat their wives as Scripture specifies are called "Godly" and "loving." I am not familiar with these "Muslim" men you referred to.

Remember, God is Love, and His perfect Love casts out your fear. Praise God for His wonderful and effectual promises of safety and security amidst our most fearful speculations.

lol.

 

[HankD]

I am not in a predicament regarding the toilet. Lol. We have three bathrooms in our nice house. Thank you for your concerns.

We can easily see that God's Word prioirtizes both Itself and the lives of Believers. Hebrews 4:12-13 clearly shows this as it states that "The Word of God is sharper than any twoedged sword, to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow." That means God's Word clearly and easily makes distinctions for us regarding what is of temporal significance, compared to what is of eternal significance. And, it clearly and easily makes distinctions for us regarding what is essential for physical life and what is merely optional for physical life.

Going to the toilet is essential for physical life because God's Word says in Proverbs 31 a virtuous wife feeds her household. Jesus fed the multitudes, and cooked breaakfast for His Disciples. He served them a Sader Supper. Jesus did it very well. And, part of the physical nurishment process in all of life is elimination and excretion. Lol.

If you feel like you still lack wisdom about going to the toilet, God has promised His Wisdom to whoever asks Him, according to James 1:5 KJV:

"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to allmen liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

Praise God for His Love which is available for all of our smallest problems. Amen.

"our nice house"? So are you a wife Jo?

Seeing that you have a gift with scripture and your freedom in expounding your interpretation thereof, I am beginning to wonder about your own advice RE: "silence", when it comes to the man in your own life (should there be one).



HankD

 

[annsni]

So, are you saying a woman indeed is to learn in silence, and is not to teach a man? Please instruct me.

JoReba - You are a woman. You say a woman is to be silent and not to teach a man. Why are you here on this forum teaching men?

 

[HankD]

So, are you saying a woman indeed is to learn in silence, and is not to teach a man? Please instruct me.

In doing so, please remember that the pronouncements I have made are not "mine," but are God's pronouncements from Scripture. Do you understand that distinction? I am sure you do, and I have Faith Believing you will keep it in mind during any further discussions where OPs quote Scripture without adding subjective ideas.

God Bless your gender and all of the inherent God given capacities and authority within your gender. Amen.

OH. OK, a little back peddling here perhaps, a very subtle ad hominem as well.


HankD

 

[JoReba]

Genesis - straight from creation

2:28 - Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

2:20-24 - But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.”
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


They are one flesh.





You clearly misinterpret Scripture, bringing a direction for the church into the marriage relationship. That is a very dangerous place.

JoReba, are you married?

Annsni, Thank you for your response to God's Word I have quoted from Scripture. God's servants indeed are to work to understand it as it was written, aren't they? Halluleujah, Bless His Precious Name.

You clearly feel comfortable quoting Scripture, i.e. the Genesis Ch. 2 passage, and apparently then expect people to arrive at the same intuitive conclusions you have found whithout even stating those conclusions. The opportunity remains here for you to go ahead and share those favorite conclusions about Genesis 2:20-24, 28, and the significance of a man leaving his father and mother, and then being cleaved to his wife.

In particular, I am interested to read how you have justifiably concluded in your imagination that being cleaved to one's wife necessarily means the wife is commanded by God to be in contradiction to His instructions in I timothy CV. 2 to learn in silence, to not teach a man, and to not usurp male gender authority. Please explain that to me, and do so without assuming everyone can read in between the lines of Scripture the same as you choose to do.

Please conclude by identifying the "danger" you feel exists when I Timothy Ch. 2 is implemented in the Church. Please step up in Godly confidence and surety.

 

[JoReba]

JoReba - You are a woman. You say a woman is to be silent and not to teach a man. Why are you here on this forum teaching men?

Have I taught you anything?

 

[JoReba]

OH. OK, a little back peddling here perhaps, a very subtle ad hominem as well.


HankD

Do you, or do you not, believe Apostle Paul was correct in I Timothy Ch. 2 when he instructed women to learn in silence, to not teach a man, and to not usurp male authority?

What is your answer to this question beyond your last chatty response? Praise God for your wisdom, love, and service to Him.

 

[HankD]

Do you, or do you not, believe Apostle Paul was correct in I Timothy Ch. 2 when he instructed women to learn in silence, to not teach a man, and to not usurp male authority?

What is your answer to this question beyond your last chatty response? Praise God for your wisdom, love, and service to Him.

Yes, I believe he meant what he said, but we are also to keep the peace in the local church.

It's a 21st century dilemma.
By even discussing this with you I am compromising what it says.

Now what is your take on the account of Deborah and Hulda, prophetesses of the Lord?

HankD

 

[JoReba]

Genesis - straight from creation

2:28 - Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.”

2:20-24 - But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
because she was taken out of Man.”
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.


They are one flesh.





You clearly misinterpret Scripture, bringing a direction for the church into the marriage relationship. That is a very dangerous place.

JoReba, are you married?

Even though Scripture never shows either a need for "interpretation" or a Command from God to "interpret" it, I will go ahead and ask you for your "interpretation" of I Timothy Ch. 2 where Apostle Paul specifies from God that women are to:

1.) Learn in silence.
2.) Not teach a man.
3.) Not usupr the authority of a man.

I am praying for you that you will be able to confidently proceed beyond complaining about my posts into the Wisdom of God for a concise, relevant, and axiomatic "interpretation" of I Timothy Ch. 2. God Bless you as you bring your heart, your mind, your emotions, your expectations, your intuition, your weaknesses, and your marriage before the Throne of Grace in this matter.

Remember, there is no "trivia" in God's Word.

 

[Amy.G]

Looks like it's that time again.

 

[annsni]

Annsni, Thank you for your response to God's Word I have quoted from Scripture. God's servants indeed are to work to understand it as it was written, aren't they? Halluleujah, Bless His Precious Name.

You clearly feel comfortable quoting Scripture, i.e. the Genesis Ch. 2 passage, and apparently then expect people to arrive at the same intuitive conclusions you have found whithout even stating those conclusions. The opportunity remains here for you to go ahead and share those favorite conclusions about Genesis 2:20-24, 28, and the significance of a man leaving his father and mother, and then being cleaved to his wife.

In particular, I am interested to read how you have justifiably concluded in your imagination that being cleaved to one's wife necessarily means the wife is commanded by God to be in contradiction to His instructions in I timothy CV. 2 to learn in silence, to not teach a man, and to not usurp male gender authority. Please explain that to me, and do so without assuming everyone can read in between the lines of Scripture the same as you choose to do.

Please conclude by identifying the "danger" you feel exists when I Timothy Ch. 2 is implemented in the Church. Please step up in Godly confidence and surety.

The passage in Timothy is involving the church. I agree with the Scriptures that women are not to teach men in the church and I believe in male pastorship. We must also realize that Scripture tells us that women are to pray and prophesy - and that involves speech and so the "silence" does not mean that a woman never opens her mouth. We must understand it as a disruption, a taking of authority and a usurping, as the Scriptures tell us.

JoReba - You've been asked directly a few times: Are you married? I'll ask a few more questions: How long have you been married? Is your marriage successful? Would your husband "praise you at the gates"? Does his heart fully trust in you? I'd really love to see the answers to these questions.

 

[annsni]

Have I taught you anything?

Just that popcorn tastes MUCH better hot.