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Semi-Pelagianism
- Thread starter Michael Wrenn
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It is normal for a person to sin. We sin every day. Those sins may not be murder or adultery. But they may be the slander of misrepresenting your brother on an internet board, using offensive language, accusing people falsely, lying, being proud, deceitful, covetousness, and so many more. You get the idea. Don't think that just because you haven't murdered a person that you are not a sinner. You are, and you continue to sin.I got a scripture that made you back down from constantly defending sinning.
Here is a list to help you along:
http://www.amazingbible.org/Document...ist_part_6.htm
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DHK,
You think the scripture about tax collectors and prostitutes defeats what I say about not sinning. Do you not know that the tax collectors and prostitutes REPENTED AND BELIEVED in Jesus?
Do you not know that repent means to feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it? Do you not know that repent means to make a change for the better because of remorse for one's sins?
The Pharisees and teacher’s of the law was the only people who did NOT believe and repent.
You think the scripture about tax collectors and prostitutes defeats what I say about not sinning. Do you not know that the tax collectors and prostitutes REPENTED AND BELIEVED in Jesus?
Do you not know that repent means to feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it? Do you not know that repent means to make a change for the better because of remorse for one's sins?
The Pharisees and teacher’s of the law was the only people who did NOT believe and repent.
It is normal for a person to sin. We sin every day. Those sins may not be murder or adultery. But they may be the slander of misrepresenting your brother on an internet board, using offensive language, accusing people falsely, lying, being proud, deceitful, covetousness, and so many more. You get the idea. Don't think that just because you haven't murdered a person that you are not a sinner. You are, and you continue to sin.
You do all those things against me. NOW STOP COMING ON HERE AND ATTACKING ME PERSONALLY. What do you not get about that?
Can you find me one place in the Bible where it says "repent of all your sins."DHK,
You think the scripture about tax collectors and prostitutes defeats what I say about not sinning. Do you not know that the tax collectors and prostitutes REPENTED AND BELIEVED in Jesus?
Do you not know that repent means to feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it? Do you not know that repent means to make a change for the better because of remorse for one's sins?
The Pharisees and teacher’s of the law was the only people who did NOT believe and repent.
The Bible says no such thing. It is an unbiblical concept, and impossible to do.
The prostitute repented of her prostitution. She left that lifestyle and then followed Jesus. It does not say that she never sinned again.
I am only a messenger of the Bible. I speak what the Bible speaks. Read 1John 1:8,10. If you are not a sinner then you are a heretic. That is what the Bible teaches. Which are you?You do all those things against me. NOW STOP COMING ON HERE AND ATTACKING ME PERSONALLY. What do you not get about that?
Michael Wrenn
New Member
I may have posted this before, but I want to post it again; it's the "Confession of Sin" from the Book of Common Prayer:
Most merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole heart;
we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.
For the sake of thy Son Jesus Christ,
have mercy on us and forgive us;
that we may delight in your will,
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name. Amen.
Most merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole heart;
we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We are truly sorry and we humbly repent.
For the sake of thy Son Jesus Christ,
have mercy on us and forgive us;
that we may delight in your will,
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name. Amen.
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
Notice who the verbs are in the present continuous. It refers to a lifestyle of sin. For example a Christian could possibly commit the sin of adultery. But if he continued in a lifestyle of adultery it would be a fairly good indication that he is not saved.
The verse teaches eternal security. We will not lose our salvation. We are overcomers. There are many battles in this life. Some of them we will no doubt lose. But in the end we win the war.
Another scripture has you backing down; a person cannot KEEP living a lifestyle of adultery. You said, “But if he continued in a lifestyle of adultery it would be a fairly good indication that he is not saved.” THEN YOU SAID, “The verse teaches eternal security. We will not lose our salvation. We are overcomers. There are many battles in this life. Some of them we will no doubt lose. But in the end we win the war.”
What you have done here is contradict yourself! WHICH IS IT? IS THE SINNER SAVED OR NOT?
Now, everyone can see the type of confusion and debate tactics that you have been using to go against me. Your confusion and contradiction has been exposed by your own words
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Another scripture has you backing down; a person cannot KEEP living a lifestyle of adultery. You said, “But if he continued in a lifestyle of adultery it would be a fairly good indication that he is not saved.” THEN YOU SAID, “The verse teaches eternal security. We will not lose our salvation. We are overcomers. There are many battles in this life. Some of them we will no doubt lose. But in the end we win the war.”
What you have down here is contradict yourself! WHICH IS IT? IS THE SINNER SAVED OR NOT?
Now, everyone can see the type of confusion and debate tactics that you have been using to go against me. Your confusion and contradiction has been exposed by your own words
Oh stop with your drivel. I don't agree with some of what DHK says, but I still count him a brother and there is nothing in what he said that is even remotely contradictory. Lose your false accusations.
Can you find me one place in the Bible where it says "repent of all your sins."
The Bible says no such thing. It is an unbiblical concept, and impossible to do.
The prostitute repented of her prostitution. She left that lifestyle and then followed Jesus. It does not say that she never sinned again.
You are trying to tell us that all the prostitute had to do is stop prostituting, and nothing else! Moreover, this you call overcoming the world! So what you are saying amounts to is give up one sin and forget all the other teachings of Jesus!
Oh stop with your drivel. I don't agree with some of what DHK says, but I still count him a brother and there is nothing in what he said that is even remotely contradictory. Lose your false accusations.
You said you put me on ignore. Keep to your word.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
DHK: Christians can be in the flesh, can be carnal, and often don't please God. Christians can be the enemy of God by the way they act!
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
--This is written to believers, not the unsaved.
He calls them adulterers; they had committed spiritual adultery for being friends of the world.
He says that those who are friends with the world are at enmity with God.
He says that if you are a friend of the world you are the enemy of God!
He is addressing carnal Christians. He is addressing those that are walking in the flesh.
HP: I would certainly agree that one having been born again can indeed act in carnal/sinful manner not pleasing to God. Where we part ways is when you, in lock step with the OSAS particular to the theology of Calvinism, clearly insinuate that sin does not separate such a one from God. Scripture is clear. Friendship with the world is it at enmity with God, and no one at enmity with God has any clear assurance of their final standing with Him. The position you have taken is indeed nothing short of a license to sin, a position foreign to the Word of God and reason.
If I am not mistaken, it was John Calvin that made a comment that addresses this issue. He said, as I recall, something to the effect that 'no one in a state of low grace has any assurance of one's final standing before God.' I could only take remark of a 'low state of grace' to be the picture of a believer that has sinned and not came to a place of sincere repentance over it.
David said, "keep thy servant also from presumptuous sins: let them not have dominion over me: THEN I shall be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression." It is presumptuous on one ones part to believe they have a blanket pardon from sin without forsaking such sin in sincere repentance.
There is nothing I could see as a more dangerous teaching within the church then to tell believers that one can sin with impunity as far as eternal judgment is concerned. That is precisely what I see you promoting. I believe it is a completely unscriptural position that should have no place in Christian theology. Any one that has taken the name of Christ and is in daily commission of unrepentant and unforsaken sin, is imperil of making shipwreck of their faith.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
I am only a messenger of the Bible. I speak what the Bible speaks. Read 1John 1:8,10. If you are not a sinner then you are a heretic. That is what the Bible teaches. Which are you?
I am an over comer! You sound just like an accuser, ready to call someone a heretic.
That is not exactly what I said is it? Remember that misrepresenting another's position or their words is sin.You are trying to tell us that all the prostitute had to do is stop prostituting, and nothing else! Moreover, this you call overcoming the world! So what you are saying amounts to is give up one sin and forget all the other teachings of Jesus!
When it refers to a particular person repenting it normally refers to that particular sin, as repenting of her sin of prostitution.
For example, when Jesus was talking to the woman accused of adultery, he said: "Go and sin no more." He was not telling her to go and be sinless. He was telling her not to commit adultery again. Don't infer that because I said that Jesus was condoning sin. He wasn't. But that was the message he was giving the woman--not to commit adultery or live that lifestyle any more. She needed to repent of it.
You avoided my challenge.
Show me in the NT where it says to repent of all your sins.
That is not what I asked you:I am an over comer! You sound just like an accuser, ready to call someone a heretic.
I am only a messenger of the Bible. I speak what the Bible speaks. Read 1John 1:8,10. If you are not a sinner then you are a heretic. That is what the Bible teaches. Which are you?
What you wrote is as good as a false allegation.
HP: I would certainly agree that one having been born again can indeed act in carnal/sinful manner not pleasing to God. Where we part ways is when you, in lock step with the OSAS particular to the theology of Calvinism, clearly insinuate that sin does not separate such a one from God. Scripture is clear. Friendship with the world is it at enmity with God, and no one at enmity with God has any clear assurance of their final standing with Him. The position you have taken is indeed nothing short of a license to sin, a position foreign to the Word of God and reason.
There is no one here that believes we have a license to sin--no one. So don't even go down that road.
What you fail to address is James 4:4.
And while you are addressing James 4:4, address John 5:24 and John 10:27-30 at the same time.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You said you put me on ignore. Keep to your word.
Yes, but I can still view your ludicrous posts when I desire to, which is quite infrequently.
The truth stands, you've misrepresented DHK. That, and as a reminder, you're a false teacher.
I have no interest in debating your teachings. I've surpassed the mandate of how many warnings to give to those in your category thus you've been 'rejected'. :love2: :wavey: :smilewinkgrin:
Stop accusing me of misrepresenting.That is not exactly what I said is it? Remember that misrepresenting another's position or their words is sin.
Why do you even go against me and say such things! You say that Jesus was only speaking of adultery! Therefore, what you want us to believe is that Jesus would be okay with her committing murder or stealing? Why even argue that Jesus “was not telling her to go and be sinless”!When it refers to a particular person repenting it normally refers to that particular sin, as repenting of her sin of prostitution.
For example, when Jesus was talking to the woman accused of adultery, he said: "Go and sin no more." He was not telling her to go and be sinless. He was telling her not to commit adultery again. Don't infer that because I said that Jesus was condoning sin. He wasn't. But that was the message he was giving the woman--not to commit adultery or live that lifestyle any more. She needed to repent of it.
What sins are you claiming we do not have to repent? I can hardly believe what you say to me about sin.You avoided my challenge.
Show me in the NT where it says to repent of all your sins.
What you wrote is as good as a false allegation.
There is no one here that believes we have a license to sin--no one. So don't even go down that road.
What you fail to address is James 4:4.
And while you are addressing James 4:4, address John 5:24 and John 10:27-30 at the same time.
Heavenly Pilgrim has done nothing that you claim he has.
Here is a quote from DHK:
"When it refers to a particular person repenting it normally refers to that particular sin, as repenting of her sin of prostitution.
For example, when Jesus was talking to the woman accused of adultery, he said: "Go and sin no more." He was not telling her to go and be sinless. He was telling her not to commit adultery again. Don't infer that because I said that Jesus was condoning sin. He wasn't. But that was the message he was giving the woman--not to commit adultery or live that lifestyle any more. She needed to repent of it."
If what you say does not give a person a license to sin, then why in the world would you speak like this?
You see--this is misrepresentation. So why should I stop accusing you of misrepresenting me and others when you keep on doing it?Stop accusing me of misrepresenting.
Why do you even go against me and say such things! You say that Jesus was only speaking of adultery! Therefore, what you want us to believe is that Jesus would be okay with her committing murder or stealing? Why even argue that Jesus “was no telling her to go and be sinless”!
The story is in John chapter 8.
The Pharisees, trying to tempt Jesus, brought to him a woman caught in the act of adultery to see if he would advocate stoning her.
He replied: Let him that is with no sin cast the first stone. And then he bent down and started writing in the sand. As he continued writing, they began to leave, from the eldest to the youngest until there was no one, except Jesus and the woman.
Then Jesus said to the woman: "Where are thine accusers?" Who is he that condemns thee? She answered: "No man, Lord.?
Then Jesus said: "Go and sin no more."
--See the context. The context is in the context of committing adultery, not in the context of being sinless. It is stop living a life of adultery, not being sinless. No one is sinless. Jesus was not telling her that. He was telling her to give up her adulterous lifestyle. "Go and sin no more." (the sin of adultery).
Here is your misrepresentation of me:
"what you want us to believe is that Jesus would be okay with her committing murder or stealing?"
--That is not what I said, not what I want you to believe, not even close to what I want you to believe. It is slander if anything. For you to say such a thing is sinful.
Many people, people like yourself, preach such things as "Repent of all your sins." Do you tell or preach to others that?What sins are you claiming we do not have to repent? I can hardly believe what you say to me about sin.
Where does it say that in the NT? Where does it say that one must repent of all their sins in the NT? Can you show me please.
If you can't show me such a verse then my argument that Jesus was telling her to repent of her adultery would be correct wouldn't it?
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