Featured No Man Can Come Unto Me, Except [John 6:65]

So if someone was to pull a gun and shoot a child, and I was to step in and stop him, that would be a sin because I forced him?

 

God created all man and His angels with a free agency if He didn't they would all be doing the will of God. There is nothing God can't do, but He does not sin, it is against His will that our will is against His. When the fall happened the flesh cannot do anything it is dead toward life, but the free agency is still there that can go against their own will that leads to death and follow the will of God that leads to life. It can only be the word of God, the words of life that can motivate it.

If you have ever quite smoking or drinking you can understand that our will doesn't care about us and us living. What does is our conscience and the free agency that was motivated by an outside source to quite it.

When someone can't understand something they go to pet saying instead of admitting the scripture is right and they are wrong. They don't understand how they work, but both are true. They want to be known as Spiritual, so they will go to anyone's answer so they continue in what they believe.

Sovereignty of God and man's free agency is true men our responsible for their own action, by given them over to their own evil desires. God did not give them that evil desire.

So God is not sovereign to the fact God did not give them that evil desire, so God is not sovereign to a point in which man say's He is.

Ezekiel 18 :
23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? 26 If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin, they will die for it; because of the sin they have committed they will die. 27 But if a wicked person turns away from the wickedness they have committed and does what is just and right, they will save their life. 28 Because they consider all the offenses they have committed and turn away from them, that person will surely live; they will not die. 29 Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel? Is it not your ways that are unjust?

30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!

2 Peter 3:
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying —and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

 

I answered you directly, I said I did not believe God can force a person to believe against their will. How plain can I answer you?

 

So God lacks the ability and is not sovereign over man. Thanks for admitting it.

 

Winman...

You posted...

Yep, You hit the bulls eye.

I just stuns the mind regarding the pure ridiculousness that hard core calvinists are forced to adhere to in order to keep thier error filled sand castle afloat.

 

Of course not, it is not wrong to stop someone from harming another person.

But if you grab a girl off the street and force her against her will, that is wrong.

God does not force a person to believe, he PERSUADES.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Note that Abraham said "persuaded".

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Note that Paul persuaded the Jews and Greeks.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

This is the famous chapter about faith in the Bible. Note it says believers were persuaded, not forced.

To persuade someone and to force someone are not the same thing. To persuade someone means to convince them, but the person makes up their own mind. To force someone means to give them no choice in the matter.

The scriptures NEVER say we are forced to believe, they say we are persuaded.

 

Yep, it's a house of cards. They know as well as we do that no person can be forced against their will to believe. God does not ZAP people to believe, he PERSUADES them.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

2 Tim 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

It is certain these Calvinists cannot be persuaded.

 

God's election and man's fee will working together unto salvation.

 

This is a contradiction. If natural men hate God and do not want to come to God, then if God changes their will he has done so against their will.

This is the typical nonsensical and illogical arguments you get from Calvinists. You have to be educated (brainwashed) to think like this, no person with a lick of common sense would ever believe direct contradictions to be truth.

 

You are welcome, I have no problem disagreeing with your error.

Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

 

It's sad indeed. winman would rather deny the Bible than admit is argument had a false premise.

 

Pathetic, you Calvinists have a way to explain away all scripture.

2 Cor 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

This is also Paul speaking, and he says we persuade MEN. He did not say brethren, or the elect, he simply said MEN, meaning all men.

Calvinism depends on redefining words. The world becomes "the elect", all becomes "the elect" and persuade becomes "regenerated".

You guys should really write your own dictionary so folks could communicate meaningfully with you. You guys have your own definitions for words that no one else holds to.

Of course, you have twist the definitions of words to make your system work.

 

You absolutely err to say men do not have free will and cannot believe in God.

Lev 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

Here God said ANY MAN could worship the Lord by bringing an offering. Every man was to do it of HIS OWN VOLUNTARY WILL, proving all men have free will.

And God himself said this offering would be ACCEPTED to make ATONEMENT for him.

This proves any man can come in faith of his own free will, unless you think a person obtains atonement through works.

No, all men are justified through faith, so these men had faith.

It is not me that does not believe scripture.

 

I have never read one responsible Calvinist theologian claim that God saves people against their will. Dagg, Gill, Spurgeon, Piper, White, Martin, et. al. have never taught that God assaults man's will. God liberates man's will.