No Man Can Come Unto Me, Except [John 6:65]

[freeatlast]

Your repeated remark: "You still did not explain the Trinity to me" is getting a little silly. Now if you don't understand the Trinity you are likely in the company of 99.9999% or more of all "true believers". If you do understand the Trinity then please feel free to explain to all on this Board and I am sure the news will soon become widespread through the Christian Community.

My inability to explain the Trinity to you has absolutely nothing to do with the absence of free will in the unsaved person. I realize they believe they have free will but they are blinded by Satan and sin. Perhaps I should one more time direct your attention th Scripture presented in the OP.


John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Romans 3:11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now if you can squeeze free will of unsaved man into those Scripture feel free to do so!

Your inability to explain the Trinity shows that God does not fit into your box. The same with election and free will. Both are taught in scripture and both are equally true in all their aspects just like the Trinity. As usual you omit other scriptures of equal importance for free will showing you do not understand the truth in this matter.
Free will;

"...Choose today whom you will serve" ...Joshua 24:15
"...So choose life in order that you may live."... Deuteronomy 30:19
"...Choose good"... Isaiah 7:15
"...You did evil in My sight and chose what displeases Me"...
Isaiah 65:12
"...Choose knowledge rather than gold"... Proverbs 8:10
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17

 

[percho]

Your inability to explain the Trinity shows that God does not fit into your box. The same with election and free will. Both are taught in scripture and both are equally true in all their aspects just like the Trinity. As usual you omit other scriptures of equal importance for free will showing you do not understand the truth in this matter.
Free will;

"...Choose today whom you will serve" ...Joshua 24:15
"...So choose life in order that you may live."... Deuteronomy 30:19
"...Choose good"... Isaiah 7:15
"...You did evil in My sight and chose what displeases Me"...
Isaiah 65:12
"...Choose knowledge rather than gold"... Proverbs 8:10
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17

How does the following verse affect free will?


Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[OldRegular]

Your inability to explain the Trinity shows that God does not fit into your box.

I am interesting as to how you explain the Trinity. Now I don't mean God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, or God in three persons. That defines the Trinity, it doesn't explain the Trinity. You explain the Trinity for me and all others. You present the Scripture that explain the Trinity.

It is you freewillers who put God in a box. It is you folks who think that the much vaunted free will of unregenerate man trumps the eternal decrees of God.

 

[freeatlast]

I am interesting as to how you explain the Trinity. Now I don't mean God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, or God in three persons. That defines the Trinity, it doesn't explain the Trinity. You explain the Trinity for me and all others. You present the Scripture that explain the Trinity.

It is you freewillers who put God in a box. It is you folks who think that the much vaunted free will of unregenerate man trumps the eternal decrees of God.

I do not try and explain the unexplainable I simply accept it by faith. I do not believe in free will. I believe in election/free will as scripture teaches both. You put God in the box by only accepting one half of what scripture teaches.

 

[freeatlast]

How does the following verse affect free will?


Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

It doesn't.

 

[ktn4eg]

Acts 13:48(KJV) ---

"And when the Gentiles heard this [the Gospel], they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

As I mentioned in another thread that's now closed, it's God who takes the initiative in our salvation, not us.

("Think on these things.")

 

[freeatlast]

Acts 13:48(KJV) ---

"And when the Gentiles heard this [the Gospel], they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

As I mentioned in another thread that's now closed, it's God who takes the initiative in our salvation, not us.

("Think on these things.")

Yes and I fully accept that passage, but that is not the only passage in the bible on the issue and I also accept the other passages on free will.


"...Choose today whom you will serve" ...Joshua 24:15 FREE WILL
"...So choose life in order that you may live."... Deuteronomy 30:19 FREE WILL
"...Choose good"... Isaiah 7:15 FREE WILL
"...You did evil in My sight and chose what displeases Me"...
Isaiah 65:12 FREE WILL
"...Choose knowledge rather than gold"... Proverbs 8:10 FREE WILL
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17 FREE WILL


The problem you are having as well as every hyper Cal is you reject other passages that show man has a choice/free will. Both sovereign election and man's free will are involved in salvation and clearly in the bible. How God gets that to work I have no idea, but He does. Hyper Cal rejects the truth about soteriology.

 

[OldRegular]

"...Choose today whom you will serve" ...Joshua 24:15 FREE WILL
"...So choose life in order that you may live."... Deuteronomy 30:19 FREE WILL
"...Choose good"... Isaiah 7:15 FREE WILL
"...You did evil in My sight and chose what displeases Me"...
Isaiah 65:12 FREE WILL
"...Choose knowledge rather than gold"... Proverbs 8:10 FREE WILL
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17 FREE WILL


The problem you are having as well as every hyper Cal is you reject other passages that show man has a choice/free will. Both sovereign election and man's free will are involved in salvation and clearly in the bible. How God gets that to work I have no idea, but He does. Hyper Cal rejects the truth about soteriology.

In the passages you quote you really need to state whether they are addressed to children of God or unbelievers. Big Difference!

 

[OldRegular]

I do not try and explain the unexplainable I simply accept it by faith.

Refreshing that you fessed up on explaining the Trinity!

 

[freeatlast]

Refreshing that you fessed up on explaining the Trinity!

You need to do the same about salvation and stop denying one part of scripture..

 

[freeatlast]

In the passages you quote you really need to state whether they are addressed to children of God or unbelievers. Big Difference!

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Excuses Excuses.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
In the passages you quote you really need to state whether they are addressed to children of God or unbelievers. Big Difference![/]quote]

Response by freeatlast
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Excuses Excuses.

That does not cut it freeatlast. You have been shouting free will incessantly. It is time you prove your point. There is a difference between the lost and saved you know!

 

[psalms109:31]

How does the following verse affect free will?


Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

When we are in Christ we are no longer a part of the world, in it but not of it.

It still does not negate the fact that God loved them that He sent His Son. Jesus did not come to save the righteous, they don't need saving, He came to save sinners who are deceived.

We are free agents that is how God created us, that only in Christ we have the righteousness to have the freedom to not live the way we once did, but to live a righteous life without earning what we already have by being in Christ. In which Jesus Christ gets the glory.

2 Thessalonians 1


1 Paul, Silas[Greek Silvanus, a variant of Silas] and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving and Prayer

3 We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters,[The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family; also in 2:1, 13, 15; 3:1, 6, 13.] and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love all of you have for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.

5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

11 With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by faith. 12 We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.[Or God and Lord, Jesus Christ]


We are to come to Him as we are dead sinners through the words of life and eat and drink of Him to have what we don't have on our own.

 

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
In the passages you quote you really need to state whether they are addressed to children of God or unbelievers. Big Difference![/]quote]



That does not cut it freeatlast. You have been shouting free will incessantly. It is time you prove your point. There is a difference between the lost and saved you know!

I proved the point with scripture and you reject scripture. Like I told you, how the Lord works the two together I have no clue but scripture teaches both. My problem is I cannot explain everything about God and yet I can accept what I cannot explain. Your problem is you cannot believe everything about God so you reject one half of how He works. You explain to me how there is one God and three persons all being God and I will explain how God works election and free will without violating either.

 

[psalms109:31]

Acts 13:48(KJV) ---

"And when the Gentiles heard this [the Gospel], they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

As I mentioned in another thread that's now closed, it's God who takes the initiative in our salvation, not us.

("Think on these things.")

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble. The remnant of Israel will trust in the name of the LORD.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.

Ezekiel 28 :
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

Romans 11 :
20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[OldRegular]

I proved the point with scripture and you reject scripture.

You have proven nothing with Scripture.

Like I told you, how the Lord works the two together I have no clue but scripture teaches both. My problem is I cannot explain everything about God and yet I can accept what I cannot explain. Your problem is you cannot believe everything about God so you reject one half of how He works.

Do you believe the following Scripture?

Romans 3:11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

You explain to me how there is one God and three persons all being God and I will explain how God works election and free will without violating either.

I have admitted that I can't explain the Triune nature of God. Neither can anyone else as far as I know. Since you keep parroting that line perhaps you have received a special revelation and will enlighten all.

 

[Winman]

Acts 13:48(KJV) ---

"And when the Gentiles heard this [the Gospel], they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

As I mentioned in another thread that's now closed, it's God who takes the initiative in our salvation, not us.

("Think on these things.")

No one denies that God initiates salvation, I have said repeatedly unless God had graciously provided the scriptures to us, that no man could possibly even conceive of the true God and salvation through his Son Jesus Christ. So this is a false argument that should be abandoned once and for all. I do not know of one non-Cal at BB who thinks man initiates salvation.

As for Acts 13:48, what is it saying is ordained, eternal life or believing? I contend it is eternal life this verse is saying is ordained, not believing. God does not ordain who shall believe, but he does ordain that those who believe should have eternal life. This is supported by much scripture.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is God's will, this is what he has ordained, that every one that believes on Jesus Christ may have everlasting life.

You are interpreting Acts 13:48 like this;

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to believe had eternal life."

That is how you intepret this verse, but that is not what it says. It is eternal life that was ordained to those that believe, not believing.

 

[OldRegular]

No one denies that God initiates salvation, I have said repeatedly unless God had graciously provided the scriptures to us, that no man could possibly even conceive of the true God and salvation through his Son Jesus Christ. So this is a false argument that should be abandoned once and for all. I do not know of one non-Cal at BB who thinks man initiates salvation.

The above is not a sufficient explanation of God initiating Salvation. God initial act before he created the world is show in the following Scripture.

Ephesians 1:3-7
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

As for Acts 13:48, what is it saying is ordained, eternal life or believing? I contend it is eternal life this verse is saying is ordained, not believing. God does not ordain who shall believe, but he does ordain that those who believe should have eternal life. This is supported by much scripture.

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

You are wrong again Winman. You are putting your spin on Scripture. Not Good! The passage clearly states that those who were chosen by God for eternal life believed.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is God's will, this is what he has ordained, that every one that believes on Jesus Christ may have everlasting life.

That is correct. That is the promise of God repeatedly in Scripture. I will say again as I have repeatedly: No one who believes the Doctrines of Grace denies that belief or faith is an integral part of Salvation.

You are interpreting Acts 13:48 like this;

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to believe had eternal life."

That is how you intepret this verse, but that is not what it says. It is eternal life that was ordained to those that believe, not believing.

So now you are into mind reading Winman, and at a distance also.

 

[Winman]

Num 14:11And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them?

If God regenerates a man and causes him to have faith as you believe, then why would God be provoked because the children of Israel did not believe him? That makes no sense whatsoever, for if your doctrine is true then God would know they could not possibly believe, and God would also be able to instantly regenerate them and cause them to have faith if that is what he desired. And it is certain that he did desire them to believe.

This scripture is nonsensical if your view is correct.

So, you explain to me why God would be provoked for unbelief, knowing that only he can cause belief in your view.

 

[freeatlast]

You have proven nothing with Scripture.




Do you believe the following Scripture?

Romans 3:11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.




I have admitted that I can't explain the Triune nature of God. Neither can anyone else as far as I know. Since you keep parroting that line perhaps you have received a special revelation and will enlighten all.

I keep telling you I believe those passages. I also believe these do you?

"...Choose today whom you will serve" ...Joshua 24:15
"...So choose life in order that you may live."... Deuteronomy 30:19
"...Choose good"... Isaiah 7:15
"...You did evil in My sight and chose what displeases Me"...
Isaiah 65:12
"...Choose knowledge rather than gold"... Proverbs 8:10
"Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Re 22:17