Featured No Man Can Come Unto Me, Except [John 6:65]

I have addressed all of these verses numerous times and you know it.

 

I have probably answered all these verses (except John 6:65) at least a dozen times in the past 2 years. I am sick of repeating myself, and I am sure that many here are sick of me repeating myself.

I showed you Leviticus 1:1-4, this scripture shows that any man can worship God, that all men have free will, and that God would accept this man's offering to make atonement for him. It is not the work of bringing the offering that obtained atonement, it was the faith of the man who offered the offering, as no man is justified except by faith.

There are many verses that show man has the ability to make a choice whether to serve God, or serve false gods.

You have to disregard and ignore all this scripture to believe Total Depravity as Calvinism believes it. There is much scripture that supports all men have free will and men can refuse evil and choose good.

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

As long as verses like this are in the Bible (which shall be forever), I will never accept or believe Calvinism's view of Total Depravity.

You cannot show any scripture that says all men are unable to believe. There is no such scripture in the Bible, if there was I would know about it. You cannot show it.

 

Old regular posted...

On the contrary, it is WE who are non-cals, who do understand the doctrines of Grace.

It is the calvinists who have replaced Gods doctrines of grace..found in the scriptures..and replaced them with the doctrines of men...namely...a man named John Calvin.

Calvinists...come back to the source..the pure scriptures. You have forsaken the pure water for the polluted.

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(((Whoops)))...I have to edit here. This is not imply that I believe that literally *everything* in calvinism is bad. There are lots of things that could come up in discussion with calvinists that I could give a hearty "amen" to.

Just wanted to get that in there.

 

I am not trying to be inspiring, I am trying to be scriptural.

You act like I don't supply scripture to support what I believe. I constantly show scripture, and I do not twist it.

 

Old Regular...

Old Regular...

What in the world would make you think that those scriptures would in any way be problematic for non-cals,??? Those are tremendously wonderfull passages of truth, and they are loved world wide by non-cals. We have no issue with those passages at all from a non cal position.

The problem is not with Gods scriptures, it is with Calvinists heeding the errors of John Calvin, and his minions, as they horribly take these beautiful passages of scriptures to places and applications that are filled with error.

 

Old Regular posted...

Maybe according to John Calvin, but NOT according to God...

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.


John 11:26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath has eternal life.


John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

I could go on and on and on of course....

 

What do those passages teach?

 

Do these verses say that all men are unable to believe? Nope, not one word to that effect.

Do these verses say that all men are unable to believe? Nope.

Do these verses say all men are unable to believe? No again.

Do these verses say all men are unable to believe? Yes and no. While a man is carnally minded, and minds the things of the flesh they cannot believe. That does not mean necessarily that a man cannot mind the things of the Spirit and believe.

You should have gone ONE VERSE MORE;

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Now, I don't know if you simply overlooked this verse, or intentionally failed to include it, but this verse is key to understanding when a person is born again and regenerated. No man is born again until he has the INDWELLING Holy Spirit. Until the Spirit is IN YOU, you are none of Christ's.

So, when do the scriptures show a man receives the indwelling Holy Spirit? AFTER HE BELIEVES.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Paul's question demands the answer that these Galatians did not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit until after they first heard the gospel and believed. Therefore they were unregenerate when they heard and believed. This proves that the natural man can believe.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This verse is very plain and clearly says that no man receives the Spirit until after he has believed. This proves the natural man can believe.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

This verse clearly shows Paul did not believe a person receives the indwelling Holy Spirit until after they believe. Again, this proves the natural man has the ability to believe.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This passage shows several things; First it shows that natural men can understand some spiritual matters. These men clearly understood Peter's preaching that they had crucified Jesus, and that Jesus was the Christ. They were deeply convicted. They also realized the great peril they were in and asked Peter what they could do to escape such a great judgment against them.

Then Peter clearly tells them they must both repent and believe on Jesus for the remission or forgiveness of their sins, and if they do they will receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. These verses prove the natural man can clearly understand simple spiritual truths, and that they can both repent of their sins and believe.

And I just showed you several verses that all show your Calvinistic interpretation of this verse is error. The natural man can both hear and understand the simple gospel, and he can believe if he so chooses to do so. If he believes, he then is given the indwelling Holy Spirit and is now able to understand the "deep things" of the Spirit. This is also shown in Proverbs.

Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Please note the order in this verse, it agrees with everything I have presented you in this post. First, a man turns or repents and comes to God in faith. After turning, God says he will pour out his Spirit to that man. And lastly, God says he will make his words known to that man.

I believe every single word of scripture, I doubt many here at BB post scripture as often as I. I do not depend upon the creeds and teachings of men, I rely upon the scriptures. I completely disagree with the part of your statement that I bolded. A man is New Birthed THROUGH FAITH, not the oppoosite as you have argued. Romans 8:9 clearly says that no man is a spiritual man until the Holy Spirit dwells IN HIM, and I have shown you multiple verses that show a man does not receive the indwelling Spirit until AFTER he first believes.

So your Reformed view that a man must be regenerated to have the ability to believe is error, and easily refuted by much scripture. The natural man can comprehend the basics, the simple gospel. The natural man can repent, and he can believe the gospel. Only after believing does he receive the indwelling Holy Spirit and is now "in the Spirit".

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Again, the scriptures are clear. Only to those men who receive Jesus Christ and believe on his name, does God give the power to be born again, to become the sons of God.

I have answered every one of your scriptures you posted, so don't come back two days from now and claim I have never responded to you. I get a little tired of this tactic, there are several here that repeatedly ask the same questions over and over (Yeshua1 comes to mind) as if they have never been answered.

I do not know why you failed to post Romans 8:9, but that is the verse where your view unravels. Whether intentional or not, it was very clever to exclude it, but not clever enough.

 

Just what they say. It takes a confused person to misunderstand them

 

I agree that unless God draws a man, that no man can come to Jesus. That is not the same things as saying a man cannot believe. Read Matthew 22;

Mat 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Jesus compared the kingdom of heaven to a marriage a king made for his son. No man could come to this wedding unless invited. So the king sent out servants to invite people to the wedding.

And this is exactly how the gospel is. Unless God had revealed himself and his son Jesus Christ to us, no man could come to Jesus. God did this by sending out his prophets who wrote the word of God and preached to the people.

Unless God had revealed himself to us, and invited us to believe in Jesus, no man could possibly come to Christ. In fact, no man could possibly conceive in his natural mind the nature of the true God and Jesus.

But once a man has been enlightened and called by the gospel, the natural man has the ability to either accept the invitation and come to the wedding, or to refuse. That is what is shown in this parable. And those evil men who refused to come to the wedding when they were called were destroyed.

But if you continue to read this parable, you see many men obeyed and did come to the wedding when the king called. Men are able to choose whether to obey or disobey. But no man could possibly come to the wedding unless he was first called.

This is what Jesus means when he says no man could come to him unless he were drawn. It says nothing whatsoever about a man being unable to believe, in fact this parable proves man can believe, because many men came when called.

But you haven't proven me wrong, you have simply read your Reformed beliefs into scripture when they are not there. The scripture you provided did not say all men are unable to believe, it simply said a man cannot come to Christ unless he is drawn. These are altogether two different subjects, but you cannot comprehend that because you read your theology into the text.

As far as Matthew 13:15, it clearly says these men CLOSED THEIR EYES. This actually proves they were ABLE to see but refused. So, this verse actually refutes Total Inability.

You don't get it, your mind has been conditioned to where you always read your Reformed view into scripture, even when it is not there.

I could not attend the White House unless I were called and drawn, that doesn't prove I do not have the ability to walk into the White House. Or, an even better analogy, I could not come to your house because I do not know where you live. But if you called me up and gave me directions how to get there, then I could easily come to your house if I chose to do so.

You don't get it.