God's decrees all from the beginning

[asterisktom]

Everything God willed and decreed He did in the beginning.

How could it have been otherwise? He is not like us, who decide absolutely nothing at our beginning, who need a lifetime of knowing and growing to - hopefully - choose and do the good. His wisdom, power, goodness, love have always been perfect from the beginning.

These - and all the rest of who God is - have always been the basis of all His acts, all of which were decreed before there was anyone else.

 

[Tom Butler]

Yep.

A former contributor to this board told me something years ago that I've never forgotten: "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

His immutability demands it.

Oh, let me cite my source: R. Charles Blair, former VP, Mid-Continent University, Pastor, Teacher, Director Missions in Western Kentucky.

 

[OldRegular]

Yep.

A former contributor to this board told me something years ago that I've never forgotten: "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

His immutability demands it.

Oh, let me cite my source: R. Charles Blair, former VP, Mid-Continent University, Pastor, Teacher, Director Missions in Western Kentucky.

Tom, I believe I have seen that remark from you sometime back.

Frankly I do not understand why some people want a god who is not God. I believe "Open Theism" is a popular past time among some over educated and arrogant people. I sometimes wonder if we have a few on "Board".

 

[humblethinker]

How could it have been otherwise?

Give your scriptural basis that it couldn't be otherwise.

 

[humblethinker]

I believe "Open Theism" is a popular past time among some over educated and arrogant people. I sometimes wonder if we have a few on "Board".

So, can you clarify your meaning here since it sounds potentially presumptuous, unfair and [edit]?

 

[humblethinker]

"Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

His immutability demands it.

Oh, let me cite my source: R. Charles Blair, former VP, Mid-Continent University, Pastor, Teacher, Director Missions in Western Kentucky.

It seems to me that the statement you quote can be worded as, "Did it ever occur to you that everything is ever occuring to God?"

If your view of God being so immutable then why wouldn't it be the case that everything is always occurring to God? Including sin, rape, murder, child abuse, etc.

How immutable is God in your view? Can he be in relation 'with' His creation instead of only 'to' his creation? Can He create beings to whom He can genuinely respond?

How is the neoplatonic maximal being different than your view of God?

 

[freeatlast]

Everything God willed and decreed He did in the beginning.

How could it have been otherwise? He is not like us, who decide absolutely nothing at our beginning, who need a lifetime of knowing and growing to - hopefully - choose and do the good. His wisdom, power, goodness, love have always been perfect from the beginning.

These - and all the rest of who God is - have always been the basis of all His acts, all of which were decreed before there was anyone else.

Are you saying He has will everything that will and has ever happened or the things He has willed He did in the past?

 

[OldRegular]

So, can you clarify your meaning here since it sounds potentially presumptuous, unfair and [edt]?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[humblethinker]

So, can you clarify your meaning here since it sounds potentially presumptuous, unfair and [edit]?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

haha.... fair enough for me... I'm not sure if that's fair enough for the rules of this board though.

 

[Yeshua1]

It seems to me that the statement you quote can be worded as, "Did it ever occur to you that everything is ever occuring to God?"

If your view of God being so immutable then why wouldn't it be the case that everything is always occurring to God? Including sin, rape, murder, child abuse, etc.

How immutable is God in your view? Can he be in relation 'with' His creation instead of only 'to' his creation? Can He create beings to whom He can genuinely respond?

How is the neoplatonic maximal being different than your view of God?

Are you saying that its even possible for God NOT to be perfect and complete in ALL of His divine attributes, that there just might be things that he "needs to know and learn?"

 

[Yeshua1]

Everything God willed and decreed He did in the beginning.

How could it have been otherwise? He is not like us, who decide absolutely nothing at our beginning, who need a lifetime of knowing and growing to - hopefully - choose and do the good. His wisdom, power, goodness, love have always been perfect from the beginning.

These - and all the rest of who God is - have always been the basis of all His acts, all of which were decreed before there was anyone else.

Think one has to differiate between God KNOWING all things and direct CAUSING all things that ever will happen...

believe God KNOWS All, but Not CAUSES All!

 

[MB]

Everything God willed and decreed He did in the beginning.

How could it have been otherwise? He is not like us, who decide absolutely nothing at our beginning, who need a lifetime of knowing and growing to - hopefully - choose and do the good. His wisdom, power, goodness, love have always been perfect from the beginning.

These - and all the rest of who God is - have always been the basis of all His acts, all of which were decreed before there was anyone else.

This is typical of our Calvinist brothers. They make these grand statements as if thery can prove it to be so and never even back it up with scripture.
MB

 

[freeatlast]

This is typical of our Calvinist brothers. They make these grand statements as if thery can prove it to be so and never even back it up with scripture.
MB

Well sometimes they back it up, but they conveniently leave out other scripture of equal value that shed a different light.

 

[asterisktom]

This is typical of our Calvinist brothers. They make these grand statements as if thery can prove it to be so and never even back it up with scripture.
MB

Yes, they are grand statements. I am resting in the grandness of them.

The core assumptions I built my little post on were the omniscience, omnipotence and goodness of God. Do I need to hunt down the many Scriptures for these? I thought these were givens on this board.

 

[asterisktom]

Think one has to differiate between God KNOWING all things and direct CAUSING all things that ever will happen...

believe God KNOWS All, but Not CAUSES All!

First of all, you are already nuancing my OP away from what I said. I didn't use the word "directly". You seem to be trying to shuffle me into the "God sends people to Hell" position.

Ultimately, one has to differentiate between the weak "knowers" and omnipotent "Knower" (ourselves and God). For God to know all things and then not act upon (for want of a better phrase) that knowledge would take away from either God's perfect goodness or His perfect power.

 

[asterisktom]

Give your scriptural basis that it couldn't be otherwise.

The burden of proof is on you, my friend. Look at my other post, concerning God's three attributes that I mentioned. Do you actually need Scripture for those? I don't think you would. Then point to me where my logic (concerning those three attributes) is flawed.

 

[Tom Butler]

Tom, I believe I have seen that remark from you sometime back.

Frankly I do not understand why some people want a god who is not God. I believe "Open Theism" is a popular past time among some over educated and arrogant people. I sometimes wonder if we have a few on "Board".

You have a good memory. Better than mine.

 

[OldRegular]

Yes, they are grand statements. I am resting in the grandness of them.

The core assumptions I built my little post on were the omniscience, omnipotence and goodness of God. Do I need to hunt down the many Scriptures for these? I thought these were givens on this board.

Tom, I would have added Sovereignty to the three. In my mind the omnipotence of God does not necessarily mean that He exercises that omnipotence.

And Tom I do not believe the attributes you mentioned are a given on this Board though they should be!

 

[humblethinker]

The burden of proof is on you, my friend. Look at my other post, concerning God's three attributes that I mentioned. Do you actually need Scripture for those? I don't think you would. Then point to me where my logic (concerning those three attributes) is flawed.

You're making the claim

 

[Yeshua1]

First of all, you are already nuancing my OP away from what I said. I didn't use the word "directly". You seem to be trying to shuffle me into the "God sends people to Hell" position.

Ultimately, one has to differentiate between the weak "knowers" and omnipotent "Knower" (ourselves and God). For God to know all things and then not act upon (for want of a better phrase) that knowledge would take away from either God's perfect goodness or His perfect power.

Do you hold that God determined and directly caused all things that veer happened?

or that he causes some, permits others, yet alway sovereign to make all things work together after His own plan and purpose?