Featured Why don't Baptists believe Acts 2:38 literally?

OK, When you were baptized what did you pledge or promise? That you would be a good boy? What was the promise? There is no example of anyone promising anything at any baptism in the Bible, and I have never seen that kind of practice anywhere else either. If what you say were true, there would be some evidence of it.

Your understanding of the verse is lacking. Therefore you have hastily jumped to wrong conclusions. There is no pledge being spoken of here. What saves is the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The verse cannot be taken out of its context.
What actually does the verse mean. Look at the context.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
--The word baptized, "baptidzo," or more precisely, βαπτισμα, means "to immerse. Who was immersed and for what purpose? Everyone but Noah and his family was immersed, and they were destroyed. They were all "baptized" in the destructive waters of the Flood. They died, perished, being baptized in the Flood. The waters destroyed, not saved the people.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
"In like figure" This phrase indicates that it is symbolic. "Symbolically" or "Figuratively" baptism (immersion) does also save us. Noah was not saved by water. He was saved by being in the Ark. The Ark represented Christ. All around him was "the filth of the flesh." Figuratively we are baptized or immersed in the filth of the flesh, as in the dirt of this sinful world. But it is Christ that saves by his resurrection., specifically the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. To put it another way it is faith and faith alone in Christ.

Yes, that makes it a work, not necessary for salvation.

What further do you want me to say. I say what the Bible says. Did you want me to quote ECF as well. I am not really into that.

Read my post. I already did. It is symbolic of our death to our old life and symbolic of our new life in Christ. Rom.6:3,4 make that very plain. There is no pledge. What pledge or promise did you ever make at your baptism?

Yes, that is what I have been saying. The key word you used is "illustrate."
There is no pledge involved.

What pledge? There is none. It is symbolic.
The new life was given to him at salvation. All he ever needed was given at salvation. This is a picture of what happened at salvation.

Yes, a picture of our salvation.

 

Well, it must have got back to Jerome. :laugh:

 

You do not understand the Word of God. Notice you could not explain what water baptism is, you only tried to say I was wrong in what I said. You also go against the New International Version developed by more than one hundred scholars working from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Baptism is a pledge to God.
Baptism is about dying to sin but living to God in Christ. The one being baptized should know that that they are not supposed to let sin reign in their mortal body that they will not obey its evil desires that they will not offer the parts of their body to sin. See Romans 6:11-13

What do you think you are teaching me here? What did I say, and what do you think you are correcting?
The scripture you quote is about being SAVED BY WATER.

You said many things here that the Bible does not say. You not only say things that are not in the scriptures, but you go against the scriptures and what is written. The Bible says eight people were “saved through water” yet you go against the Word and say, “Noah was not saved by water.”

The Bible says to be water baptized. You encourage others not to take it seriously by claiming, “It is not necessary for salvation.” I will do what Jesus says, and not what you say.

You do not say what the Bible says, you not only do not say what the Bible says, but you go against the Bible. The Bible says Noah was saved by water, but you say the water did not save Noah the ark did. You give up God’s Word for man’s word.

When I was baptized, I was water baptized to show I would not live according to this world but live according to Christ.

There is a pledge involved. The one being baptized is doing the act. The one being baptized is the one putting off the sinful nature; they are the ones who are being buried with Jesus and raised with him through their faith in the power of God. See Colossians 2:11-12.
If this is not a pledge, the person’s part in the marriage vows, so to speak, then what is it?

The one saved is a responsible party. The one being baptized has things to do too. They are to put to death their earthly nature; sexual immortality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. The one baptized must rid themselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language. They are not to lie to each other. They have taken off their old self with its practices and have put on the new self. Do you understand that?
Colossians 3:9 …you have taken off your old self with its practices10 and have put on the new self…
The one being baptized IS acknowledging that they have done this. If that is not a promise, then what is?

 

I know very well what baptism is; however you seem to be very confused. Yes, the NIV is a very poor translation of the Bible. But what difference does that make? Are you tied to one version of the Bible? I have used more than one on this board. The use of the NIV is a non-issue and a red herring. You say baptism is a pledge to God; but that is not what the Bible teaches. You have yet to demonstrate that through the Scriptures. You state: "The one being baptized should know..." That is right. They should know those things. But that is knowledge, not a pledge. There is no promise in there.

In verse 20 who was saved "by water"? Those that were in the water were destroyed. Noah was saved by being in the Ark. The Ark was a type of Christ. The Ark was in the water, and Noah was in the Ark. Unless you are in Christ you cannot be saved. The waters destroyed. The waters immersed or baptized all that were destroyed in the Flood. Noah was in the Ark. The Ark (Christ) saved him. It is Christ that saves, not water.

I say things you don't agree with, don't understand, but nothing that is not taught in the Bible. The 8 people were in the Ark, represented by Christ who took them "through" the water. The rest of the world was baptized or immersed in the water and were destroyed. Noah was not saved by water; but rather by the ark or by Christ.

If you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, and you are trusting in that baptism as well as in Christ, then I don't believe you are saved. The Bible teaches that one's faith must be in Christ and him alone. Only Christ can save. Christ and Christ alone. Baptism does not save.

The Bible does not teach that water saved Noah. Water destroyed the world. Are you not acquainted with the story of the Flood. Read Genesis 6-9. Read how the waters covered the earth and destroyed every living thing except for Noah and his family, and the animals in the ark. The waters destroyed; not saved. The ark saved Noah. Are you that ignorant of the Bible to not know what happened in the days of Noah? You better go back and read the story in Genesis.

That is very noble of you.

Did you make the above statement a promise or was it a symbolic act. Did you promise to everyone that never again you would not live according to the world, but always live according to Christ.
The Bible teaches not to make promises that you cannot keep. That promise, worded that way, is a promise of sinlessness. It would have been sinful to make a promise that you would not have been able to keep.

It is symbolic of putting to death the old nature. But you still have a sin nature don't you? It was symbolic, more symbolic of being dead to the old life of sin, which was buried at salvation, and rising again to a new life in Christ. The sin nature you will always have until you get to heaven.

If you have made a pledge it probably wasn't a good idea because you probably can't keep it. That is why it is symbolic of something that happens to the person at salvation.

That is not what Romans 6:3,4 teaches. You haven't put away lying, for example. You lie quite often on this board, every time you misrepresent what someone else says. Would you like me to cite some quotes for you. I am sure I could ask Biblicist to gather up a few also where you have misrepresented him as well. Everytime you do that you lie, and do not the truth. Thus, those sins have not been put to death as you claim. Slander is another sin that has been posted by you.

Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
--The context of this verse has nothing to do with baptism. It has to do with one's daily Christian life.

Verse 9 is a part of verse 8. Look at it to get the context and proper teaching:
Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
--"But NOW ye ALSO put off these."
Paul is emphasizing the present tense. Now do it.
These things were not done once and for all at baptism. Do them also now!!

You still have an old sin nature. You will never get rid of it in this lifetime. You will continue to sin every day because of it. Therefore, put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth (Col.3:8).

 

You are wrong. It IS a pledge. They have not lived out their life yet, if it is not a pledge, a promise, a vow, then what is it DHK? You have no understanding. It is like a marriage vow.

THE SCRIPTURE SAYS THE EIGHT WERE SAVED BY WATER. Stop going against God. Do you think you know how to say things better than God does?

Again, what does the scripture say?

All can read and see if you speak the Word of God, or if you go against the Word.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jesus Christ himself saved me. When you say such false things about me, it just makes me think you are beyond blind.

I believe baptism is necessary for the believer, so that they can be more knowledgeable about his new life in Christ. A pledge to God is a serious matter. Go read in the Old Testament about pledges and how important they are, especially pledges to God. A person who fears God and makes a pledge wants to follow through with the promises made as soon as possible.

Can you see? The scripture says, “…wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
“Saved by water” stop going against God.

Who is to everyone? The promise is to God. There can be many people around, few people, or only you and the baptizer.

You are speaking of yourself and that is for sure.
What kind of person speaks as you do? You are exposed to all who can see.
You say the Bible says things that it does not, so why not say things about me that are not true?

 

Tom, what you say is too easy and too clear for anyone here to believe. Hence, no response to your post.

Also, Acts 2:38 and the "gift of the Spirit" refers to what the audiance audibly heard (speaking in tongues) and to which they responded that such mean were apparently drunk. Peter defends this gift of the Spirit by declaring it is a prophetic fulfillment of Joel. Paul also quotes Isaiah 28:11-15 not merely to clarify how this gift of the Spirit was to be properly used but to prove it was given particularly to Israel as a "sign" that Jesus was their messiah. This spiritual gift was found only in the New Testament church as the new house of God as were all these new sign gifts. Hence, gospel repentance and baptism were the prerequisites for reception into this new house of God (Acts 2:40 - "as many as received the word and were baptized were added unto them").

These sign gifts were temporary and bestowed directly upon only apostles and were the "signs of an apostle" (2 Cor. 12:12) who then imparted them to others through the laying on of apostolic hands (Acts 8:17-19). The apostles laid their hands only upon those who were saved and baptized.

 

Apostle paul makes it very clear in Galatians that we receive the promised Holy Spirit at time of faith in yeshua, and that once started in faith, we continue in faith, thru the empowering of the Holy spirit in our lives!

that is the mark and seal that we belong to Christ, not that of a water, but of the Spirit!

 

A person does not always receive the Holy Spirit just because they say they believe. Jesus chooses whom he will make his home with, and you can read in Acts 8:14-17 about those in Samaria not receiving the Holy Spirit right away, but the Holy Spirit had to be prayed for.

Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

 

God "bent the rules" in that example, as he allowed them to not receiving the promised Holy Sprit until the Apostles came to them, as THAT confirmed that God would save non jews like them also! for the jews did NOT think the Samaritans could even get saved!

NOT the normal way that it worked, not the way at all today!

 

You are making things up that the Bible does not say. The Bible does not say God bent the rules.

 

Acts records historically facts/what happened, but its a transistion period of time, and God did things differently during that book...

Since that time, all christians receive Holy spirit at the moment they place faith in jesus!

 

Jesus gives the Holy Spirit. Just because someone says they believe, that does not mean they received the Holy Spirit. Just too many people say they believe, but they do not live as a changed person. They might be saved from going to hell, and the lake of fire, but as for having a relationship with Jesus, while they are on this earth is another thing.

 

And now you claim to be God, saying who has truly believed and who hasn't; discerning who has received the Holy Spirit, and who hasn't?? That really is amazing. From whence did you get these powers?

 

All you can do is attack with falseness.

Jesus gives the Holy Spirit. Just because someone says they believe, that does not mean they received the Holy Spirit. Just too many people say they believe, but they do not live as a changed person. They might be saved from going to hell, and the lake of fire, but as for having a relationship with Jesus, while they are on this earth is another thing.

 

DHK,

The Bible tells us that there are people who know and understand God. The Bible says there are people who have the mind of Christ.

From what you say to me, I do not think you are one of those people.

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Matthew 7:16

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

1 John 2:4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

John 15:20 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Acts 16:4 As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 15:18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

1 Peter 3:6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

1 John 3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

And what do you call this statement if it is not a personal attack? This is another sin Moriah. Why can't you see that? It comes from that sin nature you inherited from birth, the one you don't believe in.

Just because someone says they believed doesn't mean they did not believe! Who art thou that judgest thy brother? Are you God, having the power to look into his heart. Did God relinquish his throne to you?

Maybe and maybe not. But "Moriah" is not the name of my God, and does not see into my heart, nor anyone else's heart.
"Who art thou that judgest thy brother, and settest at naught thy brother?"

There are not two kinds of salvations; there is only one. What you said is irrational. If one is saved they are saved from hell, and they have a right relationship with God at the same time. One doesn't come without the other. You are one confused person.

 

It does not matter whom you think you are, Jesus is the one who does the choosing. What does it matter if you get baptized ten times, been in and out of different religions, been in no religion…Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. You do not get the Holy Spirit until Jesus who knows your heart accepts you.

 

jesus already knows my heart as being a sinners!

he receives me when i place fith in him and His work, period!

At that moment of faith in Him, the Holy Spirit comes to indwell and seal us!