Featured Why don't Baptists believe Acts 2:38 literally?

The Bible talks about hell, a prison, and then the last place the lake of fire.

What you say is irrational. You teach that no one understands anything about God until after they are saved, so then, with that illogic how can they say they believe in Jesus at all. You teach no one has to be sorry for their sins when they repent. However, repent means to be sorry, and if you are not sorry when you repent, then your repentance is worthless, as a filthy rag. You teach illogic, when you say a person can never obey after being saved, that they will remain saved, and that their fellowship with the Lord will just be affected. However, that is a horrible thing, for you to say that, as if your fellowship being affected is no big thing, that you do not think God will punish you and not receive any of His wrath.

The Bible says the spirits of those who had died went to a prison that they were people’s spirits there who had disobeyed God, but Jesus went there and preached the gospel, so that they can live according to God in the spirit.

 

Wrong interpretation of the passage, but whats new?

 

Salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ, faith and faith alone. There is only one road to heaven, and it ain't Buddha. I don't know what you believe but there are NOT two ways of salvation.

1. The unsaved man cannot understand anything about God, especially the gospel on his own.
2. Like the Ethiopian Eunuch, he needs someone to help him.
3. He also needs the Holy Spirit to convict him.

Repentance is not being sorry for one's sin. You have a wrong definition and thus are confused.

You are right. Repentance defined as sorry for one's sin, is a filthy rag. That is not what God wants from an unsaved person.

The consequence of your teaching is found in 1John 1:8-10
If they never sin:
You call Jesus Christ a liar.
The truth is not in you.
You have deceived yourself.
His Word is not in you.

First, get it straight. Perfect obedience does not keep one saved. If a person sins he does not lose his salvation. If a person does not obey God even for a short period of time or for any period of time, if he is saved, he does not lose his salvation.
Yes, his fellowship will be affected, but not his salvation. Both cannot be affected at the same time.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
--There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can separate me from God's love. The Christian is NOT appointed to God's wrath. He may be chastised by God as a child is disciplined by his father. But he will never face the wrath of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

That is pure foolishness. The Bible says no such thing. You cannot demonstrate that through Scripture.

 

That is your opinion.

 

Then prove it. Go through the post paragraph by paragraph by paragraph and demonstrate using Scripture where I am wrong theologically. And do it without using any personal attack.

 

I see you do not understand. I do not say what it is you misunderstand.

The unsaved man can understand things about God, even on his own, how else are people saved.

The Ethiopian was not reading from the New Testament, he did not hear any of the New Testament yet, not until Philip told him the New Testament.

Repentance without being sorry is not true repentance.

Repentance is defined as sorry for one’s sin, and that is NOT a filthy rag as you say. How in the world do you ever get that being truly sorry for sin is a bad thing? Someone who is admired for one reason or another misunderstands scripture; it is usually someone from a long time ago, a mere man with a mistake, but for some reasons an honored man. These honored men teach people misunderstandings, they have many followers over many years, and people hold on to their false teachings as if it were true doctrines.

You keep falling back on your same misunderstandings. Where have I ever said people will never mess up and sin?

I never said a person never sins, and does not struggle. I have always said we work out our salvation, just as Paul said. I do believe Jesus warns us about losing salvation because Jesus warns us. You seem to think fellowship and salvation are separate things! Tell me, how is your life and your salvation in this life going for you, IF YOU ARE IN TROUBLE WITH YOUR FELLOWSHIP?

I hope you start to think about the consequences of the things you say.

You quote scripture about people who are working out their salvation. Not everyone does so.

There were those who disobeyed and died before Jesus came to earth, though they were dead their spirits went to a prison, unlike the spirits of the righteous. After Jesus was crucified, he preached to those who were dead, he preached to the spirits in prison, the spirits of those who had died and disobeyed long ago (see 1 Peter 3:18-19). Those people who disobeyed and died before learning of Jesus...Jesus preached the gospel to them, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit (1 Peter 4:5-6). For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring us to God, even those who lived and died before Jesus.

 

What is the matter DHK? All I said is that Jesus chooses whom he will. Now you are the one how goes against me for saying that. Why do you not prove me wrong with scripture?

Ephesians 1:4
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
[ Stand Firm ] But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Acts 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

 

Here is what you originally said:

They might be saved from going to hell, and the lake of fire, but as for having a relationship with Jesus, while they are on this earth is another thing.

You imply that there are two types of salvation:
1. Those that are saved from going to hell.
2. Those who have a personal relationship with Christ.

That is heresy. There is only one salvation, one way to God, and that is through faith in Christ. There are not two ways or kinds of salvation. There is no universalism taught in the Bible, if that is what you mean. Regardless, there is only one way to heaven; one type of salvation.
Your above post espouses heresy.

That is what I mean.

The unsaved man can understand God's revelation in creation such as is described in Psalm 19:1-4. But that is not the gospel. That doesn't tell him about faith in Christ. Like the Ethiopian who could not understand the Scriptures he had to have someone explain it to him.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--The Scripture is very clear here. The natural or unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things or the Word of God.

He was reading the Bible and could not understand it. Case closed. The natural man cannot understand the things of God.

You won't find that definition in the Bible, not pertaining to unbelievers.
Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.

You won't find that definition in the Bible.
Judas was sorry for his sin too. But he didn't repent. Sorrow doesn't gain an unsaved person anything before God.

Because sorrow is not repentance. Many times my children were sorry for what they did. But then they went out and did it again. Only if they truly repented did they not do it again. Being sorry, "caught" and then shed some tears, did not mean repentance. They were sorry they were caught. But they had not repented.

And???

Are you talking of yourself? You refuse to accept teaching.

What Paul means by that statement and what you mean by that statement are two different things. You cannot work out your salvation by works. My salvation is held in the hand of Jesus; he has already worked it out for me. Paul meant something entirely different than you think.

They are very different. If one could lose their salvation Jesus would be a liar. What part of "They will never perish" and "I give unto them eternal life" do you not understand?

What does 1John 1:9 say, and then read 1John 2:1,2. Do you understand these verses?

I know exactly what they mean.

My salvation has already been "worked out". It is safe in the arms of Jesus. He holds it in his hand.

He did not preach to them so that they would be saved. They had their chance. They are forever condemned held in chains of darkness forever. There are no second chances.

 

You just repeated what I have already discussed with you. Just because you repeat it, it does not change the fact that you misunderstand and say things I did not say.

The Ethiopian could not understand what Isaiah was talking about, because it is NOT REVEALED UNTIL THE NEW TESTAMENT.

Philip could have just as easily told him to read the New Testament, but it was NOT written down yet. Philip explained the New Testament to the eunuch because it was not written down yet.

Not everyone is only interested in his or her flesh.

He was reading the Old Testament about JESUS and the gospel that was to come. The gospel of Jesus Christ is the mystery revealed, and not revealed until the New Testament times.

Why do you say “unbelievers”? Who is talking about unbelievers? Unbelievers do NOT repent to God, they do not believe.

As for unbelievers, if even they repented to someone in their life and were not sorry, even their repenting is worthless to the person they repent. If a man cheats on his wife, and tells his wife he repents of it, he is telling his wife he is sorry and will not do it anymore. For you to claim repent does not mean to be sorry is ridiculous.

True repentance is to be sorry for ones’ sin. You keep bringing up Judas to make your case.

Maybe they were not really sorry.

You see, you contradict yourself. You argue against me saying repent does not mean sorry, BUT THEN YOU SAY TRUE REPENTANCE means they would not do it again.

Truly repent it means to be sorry!

And that is the kind of repentance you claim we can have when we come to God for salvation!

It does not make sense what you say; you say, “You cannot work out your salvation by works.” What does that mean? Can you prove what you say with scripture? As for Jesus already doing it for you, Jesus does NOT make you obey! We stop sinning through Jesus by obeying! Again, Jesus does not force us to do things.

What part of do you not understand, that Jesus says these things about people who obey him.

The scriptures say so they can live according to God in the spirit. I believe Jesus.
Strange…that you believe people can go through their life on earth not obeying Jesus, though they say they believe, but then get to go to him when they die as if nothing happened with all their disobeying. The Bible says those people are liars. Then when I tell you that a person could be spiritually blind, and not obey Jesus, but they can still have a hope of being forgiven before being sent to the lake of fire…you do not agree.
Again, Jesus went to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago, he preached the gospel, so that they can live to God according to the spirit.

 

You don't understand your own words do you? What did you say Moriah? What are the inferences from what you originally said?

Here it is again (in bold) :
"They might be saved from going to hell, and the lake of fire, but as for having a relationship with Jesus, while they are on this earth is another thing." [/quote]

That is heresy. Analyze what you said.
1. There is one type of person who might be saved from going to the lake of fire.
2. There is another type of person who is saved and has a personal relationship with Christ, but the other type does not.

That is heresy. There is only one kind of salvation. Everyone who is saved has both a personal relationship with Christ and is saved from an eternity of hell.

Do you understand the heresy that you posted yet? Will you recant of it? There is only one salvation, and one kind of salvation; not two!

NONSENSE!! In the upper room in Acts 1, before Pentecost there were 120 saved people that were praying. That was before the NT. In the same chapter, just before Philip went into the desert, he came from Samaria, where hundreds were being saved. There was no NT. Why are you making this excuse? The Ethiopian Eunuch got saved because Philip was able to preach Christ from the book of Isaiah.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
--There is the gospel, right there in Isaiah.

Philip didn't need a NT. He knew who Christ was. He knew that he was saved, and how Christ saved him. He knew how to find that same message in the same book that the Ethiopian was reading.

The unsaved man is not interested in anything else but his flesh. He is carnal and does not know God. The Spirit of God does not dwell in him. The natural man does not understand the things of the world nor can he!.
Do you not believe the Bible??

That is not true. Have you ever heard of the "protoevangelium"?
"Proto" is a prefix meaning "first."
"Evangelium" as it sounds means Gospel.
The protoevangelium is Genesis 3:15 "the first gospel" given to Eve. It tells of the death of Christ and the defeat of Satan. There are many references in the Book of Psalms to Christ, and in the Book of Isaiah and the other prophets as well. Philip knew the gospel from the book of Isaiah. If you don't believe that you deny the Scriptures.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Oh come now! The unbelievers are the ones that need to be saved. That is what we are talking about right? They don't need to be sorry for their sins; they need Christ; they need to put their faith in Christ and be saved.

It doesn't mean sorry. You can be sorry all you want, but unless there is accompanied action that sorrow is worthless.

Because Judas makes my point. He was sorry but did not believe. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It is not by sorry for your sins. The Bible does not teach that.

I have already given you a proper definition. Why do you reject it. Shed some tears; it won't get you to heaven.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

First the Bible doesn't contradict itself,
and second, you must read the context.
The context says, in verse 13, It is God which works in you.
I don't work out my own salvation because God works in me. He says it right there in verse 13. Don't avoid context.

Salvation spoken of here is not justification. He is not speaking of the decision that was made many years ago when a person first trusted Christ. Salvation is used here in another sense as it is sometimes used. Salvation is sometimes used in an overall sense to include:
1. Our justification.
2. Our sanctification.
3. Our glorification.

All three aspects are included in this verse. We can't "work out" justification, or glorification. They are already settled for us. My sins are all forgiven and I am on my way to heaven. There is nothing I can change about that.
What I can change is the second point--my sanctification. That is what is in view here. We need to grow in Christ. This is where obedience comes in--after salvation, after justification.

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pet.1:5-8 speaks of our sanctification in relation to that word "salvation" and how we can "work it out." It has nothing to do with our initial salvation or justification. It has everything to do with growing in Christ, as you can see.

So you admit that you call Jesus a liar? You should be ashamed of yourself. Repent!!
Here is what I said:

They are very different. If one could lose their salvation Jesus would be a liar. What part of "They will never perish" and "I give unto them eternal life" do you not understand?

I ask you again: When Jesus said: My sheep shall never perish; they have eternal life. What part of those two promises do you not understand.
Understand this: Those promises were not conditional on obedience!
Read John 10:27-30

No they don't. Quote the Scripture that says that.

I don't know what you are talking about. Or are you talking about the thief who was saved but never did one good work after he was saved?

When did I say that? All that come to Jesus can be saved.

Where does it say he preached the gospel to any spirits in prison.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures.

 

I sure do.

I said that about the people of Nineveh. They were NOT God’s children if they did not obey the law as given to Moses and were circumcised.

The word ‘heresy’ is really a compliment from you.

Before Jesus died on the cross, there were people who died and in their spirit went to prison; they are the ones who disobeyed. That is what the Bible says.

Ha ha ha You are the one who speaks of different types of salvation. You say a person can have their fellowship with God affected but still be saved from hell, God’s wrath, and the lake of fire.

What are you saying? Acts is not before the New Testament. Lol

Jesus and his disciples SPOKE the New Testament, even before it was written down. Can you try harder to understand that?

Philip was taught the New Covenant before it was written down. Lol

Philip probably could not adequately explain the scriptures the eunuch was reading unless Philip had not been with Jesus, or learned by word of mouth from the New Testament teachings. Again, the New Testament times were first spoken.

The mystery of the gospel was not revealed until the New Testament. The Old Testament prophesied about Jesus. People were NOT saved by Jesus’ shed blood until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.
The Gentiles were not even included in the promises they were without God. The Gentiles were brought near by Jesus’ blood; they were brought near by the gospel, the blood that was shed when Jesus was on the cross, the gospel that was preached in the New Testament times.

Lol…Jesus is the New Covenant. What do you mean Philip did not need a NT? He knew who Christ was because Jesus came and had his earthly ministry---that IS the New Testament.

Philip knew he was saved and how Jesus saved him because of the New Testament.

There are people who are more spiritual than others are. People have flesh and a spirit. You do not understand.

The whole Bible is about Jesus. The Old Testament PROPHESIED about Jesus.

Philip preached Jesus because Philip learned about Jesus from the New Testament. Even though it was not yet written down, it was spoken.

To tell a sinner that they do not need to be sorry for their sins is more than a shame.

Some are not saved until after they accompany their faith with repentance and proof of it.

You keep using Judas and not making your point. We have to believe AND obey.

We would not be obeying if it were not for God and the gospel. God does not do the work for us. God does not force us to obey Him. We obey Him if we love Him.

It is God who works in us to will and to act. That does not mean we always do what God says to do! It does not mean you do not have to do nothing.

Jesus warns us about not obeying.

Jesus warns us about not obeying.

Jesus is speaking about people who obey.

I have already given you the scripture. Go read my post.

The thief believed and obeyed.
The Bible says people who say they know him but do not obey are liars.

I gave you the scriptures already.

 

Ninevithes show is the truth that salvation is of the lord on to whomever calls upon His Name to get saved! they were pagens outside the Covenat made with Isreal by god, but the Lord preched the message to them thru Jonah, and they repented and belived in God of isreal and were saved!

 

The people of Nineveh did not know Jesus’ name back then. How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
Everyone had to learn about Jesus, and this did not happen until the New Testament, for only Israel had a relationship with God, not Gentiles. Gentiles were FAR OFF from God, they were brought near by the gospel, by the shed blood of Jesus.

 

So god could not spare them, save them by what Jonah preached unto them?

 

What do you think, that Jonah preached Jesus Christ and his shed blood to them?

Jonah preached to repent.

Lol…Jonah preached that they should repent, but you and DHK, and Biblicist keep telling me I am accursed and condemned for telling people to repent and have faith!

Now that you know Jonah preached against Nineveh because of its wickedness, will you stop telling me, and others we do not have to repent and believe?

Why will you not stop preaching that falseness?

 

have to define repenting! A Sinner repents of trying to get saved by own efforts, and turns to Chrsit alone to save them, placing faith in him, they get saved!

Is that what you believe?

 

No you haven't. In fact no one has. I have never seen any Scripture that says Jesus went and preached the gospel to any spirits in prison.
Show me that in Scripture. Don't say you already have; you haven't. So don't lie.

 

Moriah has on occasion claimed to be sinless. He needs to be reminded that he is not, and that he does sin.
Secondly, it is a lie to assert that you have done so, (and repeatedly so), when you haven't. That indeed is a lie.
Third, if you have evidence of your theological position then it should be easy enough to provide it instead of just saying over and over again a simple statement of belief.

 

It means so much to me that you have stood up for me. You seen injustice and spoke up, and I hope to do the same for you.
Thank you.