Featured A.W. Pink - The Doctrine of Election

I take into account the entirety of the Biblical teaching, whereas Calvinism nullifies verse after verse. They claim names are written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world, but the biblical teaching is names are written from the foundation of the world. They claim we are saved by grace and given faith, when the biblical teaching is we are saved by grace through faith. Our faith provides the access to the grace in which we stand.

Yeshua1, you simply make one false charge after another, and evade addressing the fact that Calvinism does not fit with scripture. Instead, people like Pink rewrite verse after verse to create by shoddy exegesis an argument for the mistaken view of Calvinism.

 

salavation is either of the Lord, or it is a mixture of god and man... be thankful the Lord did NOT entrust either you or me to have ANY aspect/part of making sure that we became saved!

 

Wrong, it is of the Lord and He decides who to save...and He also requires us to believe. It sounds spiritual to say man plays no role, but t doesn't hold up against Scripture.

 

Hi All,im new here so bear with me iv read all these threads on this topic,and i would like to comment.First of allEphesians 2 8-9--for by grace are ye savedtrrough faith;and that not of yourselves;IT is the gift of god.NOT of works,lest any man should boast---now it is true that through faith are we saved,but look closely;alot of baptists doesnt see what this is saying--it is a gift of god--the it here is talking about the faith,so faith is a gift from god-you dont have it before hand its a gift--other wise it would be your work comming to god--but it says not of works lest you should BOAST of yourself---Galatians chap 2 v-20--Paul says hes crucified with Christ,i live,yet not i,but Christ in me---and the life i now live in the flesh I live BY the faith OF the SON of GOD,who love me and gave himself for me-----------So NOTHING you can bring to God because you have NOTHING,My friends GOD gives it all according to his graceand not of works.i shall say then that its whom the LORD loves andwhom he gave his life for that shall have his salvation and its according to Election as the same apostle states in another text. P.S pls forgive me for not getting every dot right,and may God bless you with HIS truth

 

Hi Again another text i would like to mention is Romans chap 9 v13--as it is written,Jacob have i loved,Esau have i hated.nowyou may say well jacob didnt do as bad as esau done,but in verse 11 same chapter it says before they were even born in the world not having done good or evil,that the PURPOSE of GOD according to ELECTION might stand,NOT of WORKS but of HIM that CALLETH.....So my friends some may say GOD is unfair and unjust---THIS CANT BE!!! well friends not to fear Paul has answered this look in verses 14-24 of same chapter and behold the MAJESTY of the LORD---------For the LORD he is GOD and has ALL power to do as he wills--

 

I need to make another statement friends so that some dont misunderstand about Election---Election is NEVER talking about LOST mankind--it ALWAYS refers to the SAVED--GOD NEVER and i repeat NEVER chose anyone to go to HELL--Hell is for the devil and fallen angels--Mankind chooses to remain in their sin and therefore GOD has NO choice but to send them there....:-(

 

Welcome to the board!

Actually in the greek "it" is referring to "by grace you have been saved through faith"...salvation, not faith.

 

It is also redundant and unnecessary to say "not of works" if the gift is faith, because scripture always contrasts faith to works.

You can't work for faith if you tried. How can you earn faith?

 

true enough but faith is also a gift from God--if not it would be your works bringing your so called faith unto him--and tyhen you would have something to boast about before God in that YOU put YOUR faith in him---but dont get me wrong it is YOUR FAITH but only after he gives it to you---then you cant boast at all before God of yourself but you will Glorify God for his great mercer and grace unto you

 

Remember that Paul said The faith OF the SON of GOD that he had--he didnt say i put my faith in him but that he recieved HIS FAITH from GOD---so he didnt have NONE till Gos gave it to him and then it was HIS

 

sorry that was GOD instead of GOS pls forgive me im not a good typer

 

How do you work faith? How can you give another person faith? A person can be loving and kind to you and encourage faith, but the faith must come from within yourself. Faith is an attitude or judgment about another.

Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

It is like the debates here, you can supply evidence from scripture to support a view, but the other person must accept that evidence personally, you can't make another person believe. They must decide for themselves if that evidence is valid or not. Faith is not something another person can do for you.

 

Welcome to BB....
good post .....all three posts:wavey:

Salvation repentance and saving faith are all part of the gift of salvation as you posted...:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

God ENABLES faith, but you must believe. If not for the word of God and preachers who preached the word of God, you could not possibly believe in Jesus. You could not believe in Jesus if you had never heard of him.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

The scriptures tell us that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose from the dead, but you must decide for yourself if this is true.

 

Win--you still have to take what Paul said and explain what he meant when he said By the FAITH of the Son of God was he saved--not what paul had mustered up inside of him but what God put inside of him and dealing with Faith--God works the faith in you to believe or hold him faithful for what he has said---example....David had to first kill the lion and the bear in protecting his flock---now do you really think david done this of his own power??????????NO WAY!!! God gave him the strengh and power to do it!!! now when it came time to fight Goliath which was far bigger and badder than the lion and bear--all ran in fear before the mighty sight of Goliath--but wait David had confidence in the LORD because he was delievered from the lion and bear by Gods power--so GOD worked FAITH in him that GOD was also able to deliever him from the Giant Goliath also and so it was!!! now david started with no faith at all--GOD working it in him through experiences of his life and that is how FAITH is increased in us after GOD gives us FAITH in working in our lives and others that instils in us that GOD is FAITHFUL!!!

 

Win--we must have a Preacher and we must hear is exactly right but the preacher is God's messenger and when we hear---that is not hearing with the fleshy ears-although we must do that also--but the hear there is with spiritual ears--let him that hath an ear to hear HEAR

 

David had to believe God's promises to protect those who trust in him. Faith is not something you can give another.

Faith is taking a RISK on another person's word or promise. It is impossible for someone else to do that for you. David had to take on that lion and bear, that is taking a huge risk. God provided. David had to take a risk and take on Goliath, God provided.

Read the story of Gideon, Gideon was not so sure at first he could trust God.

Jud 6:36 And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said,
37 Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said.
38 And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water.
39 And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew.
40 And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground.

As you see, Gideon was not so sure he could trust God at first, but God showed him two signs to encourage his faith. God does not believe for you, but he will encourage your faith.

But Gideon had to take a chance and risk God when he and 300 men charged into a large army with only lanterns and trumpets. This is faith, it is RISKING God, taking God at his word and trusting him. Nobody can do that for you, faith must come from within.

Faith must come from yourself, it is taking a risk on another. It is like going to the doctor and allowing him to operate on your brain to remove a tumor. You are taking a risk, you are placing your life in his hands. No one can do this for you.

 

well getting late here--time to wrap it up--May God Bless US all in granting us wisdom and truth..

 

Hi Hiswitness, I see you are yet another Calvinist who does not read well. So by the numbers,

Are we saved by grace through faith? If you agree with the inspired word you will say yes. If you cannot read, you will say no.

If we are saved by grace through faith, does that mean our faith existed before we were saved? Look at it this way, if you enter a room through a door, did you go through the door before you were in the room? If you can read you will say yes, but you will say no because that is what Calvinism teaches. Hence saved by grace through faith becomes saved by grace and given faith. Not what it says.

If I come to faith does that save me, or does God only save those whose faith He credits as righteousness? If you can read, Romans 4:4-5/24, you will say yes, but you will say no because that is what the mistaken view of Calvinism teaches.

But I am going to take a chance you actually want to learn what scripture teaches, so I am going to explain "faith of Christ" to you.

In the Greek, and you can look at it if you Google an online interlinear, you will see where the KJV reads faith of Christ, the Greek just reads faith Christ. So the translators added of or in because of their understanding of the Greek Grammar. Now if the phrase is in the genitive, which you can also see in the online interlinear, then "of" is the correct translation according to modern scholarship, i.e. Dr. Daniel B. Wallace.

So where does this phrase appear in the text, where both "faith" and the following words (i.e Christ, Jesus Christ, Son, etc) are in the genitive? Here they are:


Romans 3:22 (NASB) “[the righteousness of God has been manifested] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;” If we look at the phrase “faith in Jesus Christ” we see in the Greek no connector, no “en” but simply that faith and Jesus and Christ are all in the genitive case. Thus, other translations (YLT and the KJV) render the same construction, “faith of Jesus Christ.” What I suggest is the actual idea Paul had in mind is “Christ’s faithful faith or faithfulness.” Hence, I offer the possible translation, “even the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ’s faithfulness for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.”

This rendering places more glory upon Jesus Christ, is consistent with the grammar, and does not detract from the idea that our belief in Christ helps to gain access to God’s righteousness which was made available through Christ’s faithfulness, His sinless obedience to God’s will, including laying down His life on the cross.

In Romans 3:26, the ending of the verse usually reads “…who has faith in Jesus.” Actually the Greek reads “…the one of the faith of Jesus.” So the idea here is to up the ante, and indicate our faith must be “of” the same kind of faithful faith as Jesus displayed.
When Paul uses the word “faith” he is referring to faithful faith, the live faith of James and not the dead faith of James.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB), “nevertheless, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.” Here we see the phrase “in Christ” three times with two of them missing Paul’s idea in my opinion. Here is my alternate rendering: “nevertheless, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but through Christ’s faithfulness, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by Christ’s faithfulness, and not by works of the Law, since by the works of the Law, shall no flesh be justified.” I think this was Paul’s actual message.

In Galatians 3:22, we find “promise through faith in Jesus Christ” but would better rendered “promise through Jesus Christ’s faithfulness.”


As you can see, the "faith of Christ" or Christ's faithfulness should only appear in these five examples. Where the two words are not both in the genitive, then faith in Christ is the proper translation according to modern scholarship. Thus, the actual text provides absolute no support for the Calvinist doctrine that Christ's faith is in view where the text reads "faith Christ" (not both in genitive) or when the text has the word meaning "in" between them (i.e. faith (en)in Christ. No way to translate that accurately as anything but faith in Christ.

So where "faith of Christ" appears in the text, it should be translated as Christ's faithfulness or "faithfulness of Christ." Note the KJV also translates "faith of Christ" in other verses but in those cases, both words are not in the genitive and should be translated faith in Christ.

I hope I did not waste my time.

 

Faith is never a work regardless of it's source. The Bible is clear on that.

If I tell you to cut down a tree, whether you use your own chainsaw or I give you one the action and result are the same.