Once Saved, Always Saved

[convicted1]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


If someone was truly saved, and then fell away, how could Jesus say such as what I bolded? He didn't say "I once knew you, and then you became lost again, and and I forgot you".

 

[12strings]

So, tell me: When did God remove our right and ability to choose? If we cannot choose, then our humanity is only an illusion.

You are making an unsupported assumption here: The eternal, unending ability of people to make any free choice unhindered by God = Humanity. Care to back it up?

 

[SovereignMercy]

So, tell me: When did God remove our right and ability to choose? If we cannot choose, then our humanity is only an illusion.

God didn't remove it. Adam did. And where do you get your idea that we have a "right" to choose? What do you base your ideas on? Certainly not scripture. God created everything out of nothing and formed our race out of the dust of the earth. He is the Potter and we are the clay. It is beyond amazing that He would send His only Son to die to purchase for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation and makes us joint heirs of Christ. Your arguments aren't with us but with God and He has adequately answered all of your questions and objections if you would believe All of His word. The problem is you will not. Your will is in bondage to self and Satan at the moment

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You are making an unsupported assumption here: The eternal, unending ability of people to make any free choice unhindered by God = Humanity. Care to back it up?

It is an essential aspect of God's character. God's character does not change. God bestowed that freedom on His sentient beings because without it love would not have been possible. Robots cannot love.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

God didn't remove it. Adam did. And where do you get your idea that we have a "right" to choose? What do you base your ideas on? Certainly not scripture. God created everything out of nothing and formed our race out of the dust of the earth. He is the Potter and we are the clay. It is beyond amazing that He would send His only Son to die to purchase for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation and makes us joint heirs of Christ. Your arguments aren't with us but with God and He has adequately answered all of your questions and objections if you would believe All of His word. The problem is you will not. Your will is in bondage to self and Satan at the moment

Lucifer had freedom in heaven, as did very sentient being that God ever created. Our free will was not destroyed inn the Fall, but weakened.

 

[SovereignMercy]

Lucifer is not an elect angel.

I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

 

[Revmitchell]

God didn't remove it. Adam did. And where do you get your idea that we have a "right" to choose? What do you base your ideas on? Certainly not scripture. God created everything out of nothing and formed our race out of the dust of the earth. He is the Potter and we are the clay. It is beyond amazing that He would send His only Son to die to purchase for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation and makes us joint heirs of Christ. Your arguments aren't with us but with God and He has adequately answered all of your questions and objections if you would believe All of His word. The problem is you will not. Your will is in bondage to self and Satan at the moment

I do not agree with him but your accusation of him is false.

 

[OldRegular]

God didn't remove it. Adam did. And where do you get your idea that we have a "right" to choose? What do you base your ideas on? Certainly not scripture. God created everything out of nothing and formed our race out of the dust of the earth. He is the Potter and we are the clay. It is beyond amazing that He would send His only Son to die to purchase for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation and makes us joint heirs of Christ. Your arguments aren't with us but with God and He has adequately answered all of your questions and objections if you would believe All of His word. The problem is you will not. Your will is in bondage to self and Satan at the moment

Well his will is at the very least in bondage to SELF!

 

[saturneptune]

Lucifer is not an elect angel.

I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

How does one charge anyone else before God and the Lord Jesus Christ? That is not what brothers and sisters in Christ do towards each other. Only Satan accuses us before the Lord and Jesus Christ is our Advocate.

As far as charging anyone before the elect angels, (whatever that means) only Catholics equate angels, saints, and famous Bible characters with God and Jesus Christ. You see, God and Jesus Christ are from eternity past, angels and saints are created beings.

The only thing I charge is Discover Card when I am short of cash.

 

[OldRegular]

The only thing I charge is Discover Card when I am short of cash.

:BangHead::BangHead::tonofbricks: But:godisgood:

 

[Iconoclast]

It is an essential aspect of God's character. God's character does not change. God bestowed that freedom on His sentient beings because without it love would not have been possible. Robots cannot love.

I do not think you can support this biblically. God himself is not "free" to act contrary to His Holy nature.It is not possible.

 

[OldRegular]

Jude 24, 25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

The above Scripture make it very clear, except to the unbeliever, that God will keep those who are His, those for whom Jesus Christ died!

 

[saturneptune]

Jude 24, 25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

The above Scripture make it very clear, except to the unbeliever, that God will keep those who are His, those for whom Jesus Christ died!

It is hard to believe that doctrine is being debated. That is one of the clearest concepts in the Bible. No gray areas there.

 

[OldRegular]

It is hard to believe that doctrine is being debated. That is one of the clearest concepts in the Bible. No gray areas there.

Believing in a Holy God and believing that He cannot keep those He redeemed would be a frightening way to live, in my opinion!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I see no need to comment further on this thread. No one is going to change his/her mind, and I'm tired of the rancor. The subject has been beaten to death and all kinds of charges made that shouldn't have been. Sad really.

 

[OldRegular]

I see no need to comment further on this thread. No one is going to change his/her mind, and I'm tired of the rancor. The subject has been beaten to death and all kinds of charges made that shouldn't have been. Sad really.

Denying the clear teaching of Scripture is what is sad!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Denying the clear teaching of Scripture is what is sad!

So stop doing it then.

 

[OldRegular]

So stop doing it then.

It is you who deny Scripture as the following posts show!

Originally Posted by Michael Wrenn
It says no man is able to pluck them out of God's hand, and I agree. It does not say that they may not choose to remove themselves from God's hand

Then you are saying that "eternal life" does not mean "eternal life" but can mean "eternal death". You are saying "no man" does not mean "no man"?


John 10:28-30
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

The Scripture means exactly what it says!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

It is you who deny Scripture as the following posts show!

What I said affirms scripture.
Okay, your turn: "No it does not".

My turn: "Yes, it does".

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

And 'round and 'round it goes.

I can post just as many passages that support me as you can.

But I'm done. This is pointless now.

 

[OldRegular]

What I said affirms scripture.
Okay, your turn: "No it does not".

My turn: "Yes, it does".

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

And 'round and 'round it goes.

I can post just as many passages that support me as you can.

But I'm done. This is pointless now.

I don't recall that you have posted a single verse of Scripture. You have simply trumpeted man's free will and implied you have extra biblical knowledge of the character of God.