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Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


If someone was truly saved, and then fell away, how could Jesus say such as what I bolded? He didn't say "I once knew you, and then you became lost again, and and I forgot you".

 

You are making an unsupported assumption here: The eternal, unending ability of people to make any free choice unhindered by God = Humanity. Care to back it up?

 

God didn't remove it. Adam did. And where do you get your idea that we have a "right" to choose? What do you base your ideas on? Certainly not scripture. God created everything out of nothing and formed our race out of the dust of the earth. He is the Potter and we are the clay. It is beyond amazing that He would send His only Son to die to purchase for God people from every tribe, tongue and nation and makes us joint heirs of Christ. Your arguments aren't with us but with God and He has adequately answered all of your questions and objections if you would believe All of His word. The problem is you will not. Your will is in bondage to self and Satan at the moment

 

It is an essential aspect of God's character. God's character does not change. God bestowed that freedom on His sentient beings because without it love would not have been possible. Robots cannot love.

 

Lucifer had freedom in heaven, as did very sentient being that God ever created. Our free will was not destroyed inn the Fall, but weakened.

 

Lucifer is not an elect angel.

I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

 

I do not agree with him but your accusation of him is false.

 

How does one charge anyone else before God and the Lord Jesus Christ? That is not what brothers and sisters in Christ do towards each other. Only Satan accuses us before the Lord and Jesus Christ is our Advocate.

As far as charging anyone before the elect angels, (whatever that means) only Catholics equate angels, saints, and famous Bible characters with God and Jesus Christ. You see, God and Jesus Christ are from eternity past, angels and saints are created beings.

The only thing I charge is Discover Card when I am short of cash.

 

I do not think you can support this biblically. God himself is not "free" to act contrary to His Holy nature.It is not possible.

 

It is hard to believe that doctrine is being debated. That is one of the clearest concepts in the Bible. No gray areas there.

 

I see no need to comment further on this thread. No one is going to change his/her mind, and I'm tired of the rancor. The subject has been beaten to death and all kinds of charges made that shouldn't have been. Sad really.

 

So stop doing it then.

 

What I said affirms scripture.
Okay, your turn: "No it does not".

My turn: "Yes, it does".

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

And 'round and 'round it goes.

I can post just as many passages that support me as you can.

But I'm done. This is pointless now.