Featured Confessions and creeds

In my case, that is always the case.

I will agree that ones beliefs should be clearly seen by all. There is nothing more detestable than a local Baptist church that is ashamed of its name. Baptist carries with it certain distinctives, as mirrored by Scripture.

I believe everyone should know how one feels about Doctrines of Grace, and that they should mirror what is in Scripture. I have to agree with you that one should take a stand and defend it.

That is a valid point. It is like saying I voted for Romney because Obama is so bad. It is the same mindset as hiding the Baptist logo.

You end with a bang. Not to make this a DoG debate, as we agree, but one could equally say I am a non-Arminian, and be meaningless. It reminds me of the profile on this board. One says I live "somewhere in the USA." That is so lame. I live at in Lone Oak, KY. You know exactly where I live. I believe one says "along the edges of America." Since I was one for 25 years, I could say I am now a non-Presbyterian. If I did so, you might come to the conclusion I was an Arminian. By saying I am Baptist, reformed, it pinpoints the issue quite clear.

Sorry we do not agree about creeds and confessions. I lived with the chants and parroting for 25 years, and the often repeated "I believe in God the Father........" becomes meaningless babble that that no one is giving any thought to as to go through the creed.

Maybe we agree on this. A local church has the right to form a Constitution and by laws that set out a set of Biblically sound principles that binds each local member to the church.

Hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas.

 

That is actually a decent counterpoint. Sometimes I wonder where you come up with these amazing quotes. It is good to understand somone's background when talking to them. For example, one can only have respect for someone like you who is self taught and has attained the level of spiritual maturity that you have, without ever one class in seminary.

My adamant dislike of creeds and confessions, along with indoctrinations into church membership, is probably based mostly on my experience of being a conservative Presbyterian for 25 or so years. I became a Baptist because to me, the endless repeating confessions and creeds becomes as meaningless as memorizing Shakespeare in high school English and repeating it back to the class. It is certainly not a worship experience. Elder rule is also something that sticks in my craw. Here is a group of men deciding issues for the church, who were probably elected more on their social standing in the community than on spiritual maturity. For example, I would elect you elder long before many on this board who have been to seminary. When that mindset runs the church, Godly decisions do not follow. Elder rule becomes elder worship. A hierarchy is another aspect that makes my stomach turn. Not only does the local church have elders, the elders have elders and right on up to the top. Some call that a Pope. A local church has the right to call its own pastor, decide how to handles its own real property like buildings, and set its own budget.

Catholic churches are have a concept of a visible, universal church. Protestant churches have a concept of the invisible, universal church. Baptist churches believe that a local, autonomous church carries out God's work here on earth. That is a distinct difference. Again, the word Baptist carries its own defining parameters.

As I told Luke, I do believe each local church should form a set of by laws or a Constitution that clearly states what they believe from the Bible, being sure the principles set forth are Scripturally sound. They bind the church together in Jesus Christ.

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

 

Confessions, Creeds, Councils and such

Peter to Jesus: "Thou art The Christ, the Son of the Living God." That is all the confession necessary. This was not made by Pope Peter.

The writings of men are corrupted my man's depraved traditions. This goes back to baptismal regeneration which is taught by Rome and the daughters of Rome.

The followers of Jude 3 are still here. True Baptists are not pedobaptists they have never been part of Rome or any other apostate group. God has preserved a remnant in every generation, as promised. He is faithful even when we are not.

Beware of the wolves dressed like sheep.

Peace,

Bro. James

 

"'I never can hear a preacher,' this man will say, 'who is not sound. I can tell at once when there is a grain of free will in the sermon.' This is all very well; but he who boasts thus may be no better than the devil: nay, he may not be so good; for the devil believes and trembles, but these men believe and are too much hardened in their own conceit to think of trembling. Away with the idea that believing sound doctrine and chaining ourselves to a cast-iron creed is vital godliness and eternal life! Orthodox sinners will find that hell is hot, and that their knowledge of predestination will not yield a cooling drop to their parched tongues." —Charles Spurgeon, "Labor in Vain"

 

"There is an orthodox as well as a heterodox road to hell, and the devil knows how to handle Calvinists quite as well as Arminians. No pale of any Church can insure salvation, no form of doctrine can guarantee to us eternal life. "Ye must be born again"" —Charles Spurgeon, "Nothing But Leaves"

 

What about Confessing that "Jesus Christ is Lord.?" Don't we need that one too?

 

Really? NOTHING? Think Hard...I can think of a few...anchovies come to mind. :laugh:

 

I was one of the first ones on this board, if not the first, to use the term "non-Cal." Same with DoG. Let me defend their use.

Yes, non-Cal doesn't tell you much. But in the context of the discussions we have on the issue of Calvinism, rarely does anybody get confused about it. It is always quickly apparent where the non-Cal is coming from.

I also adopted the use of non-Cal and DoG with regard to Baptists specifically, since Arminian is also a deceptive term. I can lived with Reformed, but it still has a lot of association with the Presbys. I doubt if you will find a Southern Baptist or an IFB who will describe themselves as Arminian. In fact, they will deny it. So we had to come up with another way to describe them.

My intent is not to use meaningless terms. My intent is to provide a reasonably clear short-hand.

So, Brother Luke, I think you protest too much. If any atheist non-Cals, or Satan or demons show up on the Baptist Board, I think we'll recognize them quickly.

 

To add to what you have said here, to use anything else such as "arminian" will then become a distraction from any conversation because such terms are widely rejected by many, causing a change in the conversation from the original point to why they or we are not in that category.

Quite frankly such terms are seen as an attack and a pejorative rather than a description of ones beliefs. The term non-cal avoids all the baggage.

 

saturneptune

The Pastor who wrote this Commentary, compiled this Catechism using more than 8 different ones.He has a vast library and a really good command of the books in it. He has taught both greek and hebrew in bible college,and can read from the greek text fluently
He has been forgiven by God of his former sins,and has never forgotten that fact. This Cathechism is one of the best books I have on my bookshelf and no one has come close to refuting anything in it....not even close. The reason for this seems to be a strict adherence to the scripture themselves and a total focus on Jesus person and work.
I have met this Pastor back in 1980...after hearing over 200 of his messages preached.I have learned the most from Him doctrinally speaking and he helped me discover other godly ministries[Al Martin,Geoff Thomas, etc] and recommend books and offered much scriptural instruction and correction. I have not met another person face to face that was any more filled with scripture and scriptural wisdom in my life.
If you buy the book and do not like it....I will buy it from you,no questions asked:thumbs:

http://www.sgbcsv.org/literature/

To speak to someone face to face is the best:thumbsup:

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I understand what you mean when you say this. For example ...on sermonaudio...there are some christian reformed men who will lecture /preach in a very mechanical way.....today we we look at LORDS DAY 48 and then they will recite from one of the "three forms of unity"...which by themselves are good study documents....but they lecture in a dry and lifeless way...almost without the Spirit being there ...I think you know what I mean.
All study tools..are just that...tools...to help us understand the God who has saved us,and given us His word. We do not exalt the tool above the word.If we do than that very good tool can become an idol.
I speak very highly of Pastor Downing,Martin,Thomas,or any other teacher.....not to exalt them who I do hold in very high honour

....but because they have been the most biblically faithful to the scriptures and the God who gave the scriptures

I agree.....this kind of repetition is as useless as the "lets stand up now and interrupt the flow of the service with the shallow shake hands and say good morning to all the people who walked into the building this morning thing":laugh:

These can be abused and often are. I do however believe the bible teaches a plurality of elders.

I hold to a strong local church view. Not landmarkism...but close to it, without going over the edge.

This I believe is the proper place and function of a confession of faith:thumbs:

From the Catechism with commentary:


QUESTION 1: Why use a catechism?
ANSWER: There are several reasons why churches, families and individuals
should make good use of a suitable catechism:
1. The use of a catechism is scriptural in principle and is based upon the
Divine mandate for biblical instruction in the Old Testament and also
the inspired example of the New Testament (Deut. 4:9–10; 6:4–9; Lk.
1:4; Gal. 6:6; Eph. 6:1–4). The question–and–answer format of
modern catechisms is incidental to the pervading scriptural principle
of catechizing, which evidently consisted of repetitive oral
instruction, commitment to memory and an oral response.

QUESTION 2: What are the necessary requirements for a catechism?
ANSWER: The necessary or essential requirements for a sound catechism are
at least four in number:
1. The catechism must be thoroughly scriptural in the formulation of its
answers.
2. The proof–texts should clearly teach the truth pertaining to the given
question and answer.
3. The doctrinal presuppositions of the catechism should be sound.
4. The questions and answers themselves must be suitable, i.e., of such a
nature that they are neither too involved nor complex to be
memorized nor too simple to be useful to those who are older. Certain
catechisms are better suited to little children; others are more suitable
for older children and adults.
QUESTION 3: What is the purpose of a catechism?
ANSWER: The purpose for the use of a catechism is at least nine–fold:
1. To instruct in the essentials of the Christian faith. The issue is truth—
Divine truth! We must do everything we can to impress this truth
upon the mind and heart of both the saved and unsaved, and
especially our children. There are two issues: first, every child and
new convert must be instructed in the basics or essentials of the
Christian faith as thoroughly as possible (3 Jn. 4). Second, every
Christian must seek to become both a Bible student and a theologian
(2 Tim. 3:16–17; Heb. 5:11–14; 2 Pet. 3:18).
2. To impress Divine truth upon the heart and mind. The conciseness of
the catechism as a series of clear doctrinal statements derived from
Scripture, is calculated to instill the truth into the thinking process
and impress it upon the mind and into the heart. Unless doctrinal truth
is carefully and scripturally contemplated, it is never truly and fully
grasped, adequately embraced or practically implemented in the life
(Psa. 119:11).
3. To evangelize the unconverted. Christian parents catechizing their
children is the very best means of truly evangelizing them in a
consistent and balanced way. Their minds must deal with truth and
their consciences may be probed in the context of the whole counsel
of God. In later years the truth may be brought home to the
conscience through the remembrance of such instruction (Eph. 6:1–4;
2 Tim. 3:15).
4. To prepare for the public ministry of the Word. The public preaching
of the Word of God must touch upon a variety of issues—the truth of
the Gospel, a Christian world–and–life view, the whole range of
Christian doctrine and its application to the life of the church and the
individual, the Christian family, the Christian’s relation to the
unregenerate society in which he lives and the varieties of Christian
experience. Catechizing necessarily prepares parents, children and
young converts for the ministry of the Word by instilling in them a
God–consciousness, enabling them to begin to think consistently
from the Scriptures, giving them a basic understanding of scriptural
and doctrinal truths, and acquainting them with doctrinal and
theological terminology (2 Tim. 1:13; 2:2)
5. To act as a preventative from error and heresy. The best preventative
from error and heresy is the Word of God rightly [correctly or
consistently] understood. The catechism is a concise and exact
statement of the Word of God in its doctrinal expression (Eph. 4:11–
16; 2 Tim. 4:1–5; 2 Pet. 3:16–18).
25
6. To act as a preventative from spiritual decay. The true knowledge of
the Scriptures is necessarily a consistent [and therefore non–
contradictory] knowledge of its doctrinal teaching. The use of a
catechism as a concise, logical, systematic approach to Divine truth
should refresh the mind and heart and quicken one’s zeal. There is a
necessary and immediate relation between truth and the conscience
and between truth and zeal—if the Spirit and grace of God are present
(Heb. 5:10–14; 2 Pet. 3:16–18).
7. To edify believers of all ages and levels of spiritual maturity.
Everyone without exception will profit from the use of a catechism.
Little children and new converts will be consistently instructed in the
faith, mature believers should be refreshed and quickened by the
reiteration of truth and aged believers should be sustained and
enlivened by the immutable truth set forth from the Scriptures.
8. To review the essence of Christian doctrine.
9. To provide a great and necessary help in defending the faith. The
conciseness of the catechism in expressing doctrinal truth, and the
memorization of the proof–texts, provide the essentials necessary for
defending the faith or explaining it to others clearly and scripturally
(2 Cor. 10:3–5; 1 Pet. 3:15; Jude 3).[/QUOTE]

 

Many who would use the term calvinist in this way as a form of abusive speech do not understand the issues scriptually enough to think that far about it.I have found most baptists do not know why they are baptists ,much less why their ecclesiology differs from the padeo.

 

This is a good point. That's why I looked for another way to describe what I believe about the doctrines of grace associated with Calvinism.
Non-Cal is a neutral way of doing it, and DoG is a lightyhearted, non-threatening way of saying it.

 

agreed.....as time permits I like to ask a person what they mean by the term.Then when they mis-state it, I like to go right to scripture...perhaps jn 6 :37-44....and work through it together:thumbs: