Featured No pastors in the Bible

You have been so insulting to pastors here on this thread that you have no credibility at all to me. If you were acting in a spiritual and God-honoring manner you would not be insulting us who choose to still call ourselves pastors as you did for 40 years.

 

I have asked you twice now to tell me what an elder does which is different from how I've described a pastor. Apparently you can't even define what an elder does. So where is your credibility?

 

Again you insult us and judge us. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand" (Rom. 14:4).

Since you can't answer the simplest question (what does an elder do), I'm out of here.

 

He feeds off of it.

 

So, is your beef with the TERM or the office?

Your argument seems to rest on the relative absence of the term "pastors," an assertion with which I find merit.

But I don't see you arguing against the fulfillment of the OFFICE of pastor if it is called by a different name.

The Bible does teach that the ideal is a multiplicity of elders for the leading of a church.

But the Bible teaches that there is one of those elders who is worthy of double honor: the one who labors in word and doctrine.

Hebrews 13 reminds us twice that those who preach the word have the rule of the church and that members of the church are to submit themselves to them.

v 7- "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

v 17- "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

So, even if the "term" is not ideal, the office is clearly supported by the Scriptures.

 

You are correct. In the N.T., there was no single leader in the churches unless there was an apostle in that church. The point is that the church was not lead by a single leader regardless of the title you give them.

However, today the senior pastor concept is so ingrained in our churches that changing it back would cause too much of an upheaval in the churches.

Authority given to the group of elders in the N.T., does not directly apply to a single paster. Hence, the reason baptist churches are governed by a constitution and bylaws.

 

The Bible does teach that the ideal is a multiplicity of elders for the leading of a church.

But the Bible teaches that there is one of those elders who is worthy of double honor: the one who labors in word and doctrine.

Hebrews 13 reminds us twice that those who preach the word have the rule of the church and that members of the church are to submit themselves to them.

v 7- "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

v 17- "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

So, even if the "term" is not ideal, the office is clearly supported by the Scriptures.

 

UPHEAVEL...:laugh: now that's funny. Change must just be so darn uncomfortable to those who really & truly cannot transform. So what did Brother John the Baptist do...did he say we cannot have upheavel.... I will stay right here in the comfort of my own home & the heck with that desert preaching thing...LOL.

And then our savior Jesus......my God...what did they go out there to do?

 

That's not my point alvin. I believe you misunderstood what I was saying which is easy to do when reading my blatherings.

There is an ancient translation of the OT called the Septuagint.
The Greek word in this translation of this OT from Hebrew (the word is awaw) to Greek is the same Greek word as in Ephesians 4:11.

That's my point.

HankD

 

Any church that operates with a plurality of elders is also operating with a plurality of pastors, a plurality of bishops, a plurality of shepherds, a plurality of presbyters, a plurality of overseers because all these terms are synonymous. Therefore, this thread is much ado about nothing.

 

What I have put in bold above is simply not true. I Tim.5:17 - "Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine." There was more than one and probably quite a few elders that labored in the word and doctrine. I Tim 5:17 specifically says that there was more than one who labors in the word.

This refutes the idea of the N.T. church having a leading elder based on laboring in the word.

 

No it doesn't in fact neither one of you have made your case. There is no thus saith the Lord on this.