Featured Giving by the Father - Jn. 6:37-65

In this passage it is clear that being given by the Father is restricted only to those who actually come to the Son in faith - Jn. 6:37-39 - as "ALL" given by the Father NONE fail to come (v. 39) and therefore NONE are given other than those who do come. That means God did not give the whole world to the Son and so whom the Father gave to the Son is LIMITED. Moreover, coming is the consequence of being given not vice versa as Jesus does not say all who come "shall be" given to me by the Father.

Likewise, NONE come to the Son that the Father does not "draw" to the Son - Jn. 6:44. In this context "draw" is defined as "teach" (v. 45) which is something "given to him" by the Father (Jn. 6:65). What is "given unto him" in John 6:65 is explicitly what is said to be missing in some of His disciples in verse 64 - belief in Christ. Coming to Christ is equal to believing in Christ and ALL whom the Father gave to Christ did "come" to him in faith.

Skandelon, winman and van must deny the obvious comparison between what is explicitly stated is missing in John 6:64 versus the reason stated why it is missing in John 6:65.

Skandelon, winman and Van must deny that this obvious missing element in John 6:64 is faith in Christ which is defined by John 6:65 to be what the INTERNAL INSTRUCTING WORK of God that "ALL" receive who have been drawn by the Father and "EVERY MAN" that received it "heard...learned" does come to the Son in faith.

 

1. ALL who are given to the Son by the Father come (believe). - vv. 37-39

2. ALL who are not drawn by the Father do not come (believe) but remain in unbelief (false profession) - vv. 64-65

3. Hence, ALL given equal ALL drawn as both come (believe).

Those in John 6:64 were not DRAWN by the Father because John 6:65 say they could not come (believe) because it was not "given unto them" to come to Christ in faith and so all who come in unbelief (false profession) as those in verse 64 are not drawn by the Father according to verse 65.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Thus it is the ability (can) to come in faith that must be "given unto him" by the Father! Thus verse 65 defines "draw" in verse 44 to be the ability to come to Christ in faith which ability is the internal teaching or revelation by God - 2 Cor. 4;6. Those in verse 64 were not drawn by the Father, "it" or coming to Christ was not "given unto" them as they remained in a false profession.

 

Yes it does. The negative is stated in verse 44 "no man can come" and those in John 6:64 are part of that "no man can" demonstrating the Father does not draw "all" men to Christ as they were left in unbelief "from the beginning" and thus never are drawn/taught. What was not "given unto" them in verse 64 was the ability to come/believe in verse 65. Read it slowly "no man can come to me except it were given unto him". What is it that is not given unto him? It is stated in the first part of the verse, the abiltiy "can" to "come to him" in faith, which was absent in verse 64 from "some" of his disciples.

Hence, the Father does not draw all men or give ability to come to Christ to all men. Therefore, those in verses 64-65 do not belong to the exception clause in verse 44 but belong the universal negative clause in verse 44 as they were never drawn/taught/given or enable to come to Christ in faith. Thus again proving that faith is "the work of God" (Jn. 6:29) and not of men.

However, in contrast to the universal negative in verse 44 is the universal postive or "all" of the Isaiah scripture quotation in verse 45a. NONE of this "ALL" fails to be drawn in verse 44 and therefore are those who compose the exception clause in verse 44. This "all" are "taught" in verse 45a in contrast to those in 64 who never were taught by God.

What you are conveniently ignoring is "no man can" refers to ABILITY and drawing reverses that or makes those UNABLE to come ENABLED to come to Christ in faith.

What you are also conveniently ignoring that the words "come to me" refer to coming to Christ in faith. No man has the ability to come to Christ in faith EXCEPT it is given to him (v. 65) as those in verse 64 are examples of "some" who never were "given" this ability and therefore never came to him in this manner.

Therefore "draw" equals ABILITY to come to Christ in faith and is equal to "taught" in the scripture quotation in verse 45a. Hence, to be "taught" is to be drawn and to be drawn is to be given ability to come to Christ in faith.

Now, you fail to recognize there is NO EXCEPTION CLAUSE within this quotation part but that "ALL" are "taught" meaning "ALL" are drawn by the Father and yet those in verse 64 ARE NO PART OF THIS "ALL". NONE of this "ALL" fail to be drawn/taught and therefore none of this "ALL" fail to be given ability to come to Christ in faith. It is impossible to draw something toward an object without it also coming to that object at the same time. Drawing refers to the power whereas coming refers to the consequence.

Second, the interpretative part of verse 45 make "every man" equal to "all" in the scripture quotation part. In fact the very same Greek word translated "all" in the quotation part is translated "every man" in the interpretative part. Hence "ALL" equals "every man" but excludes those in verse 64 as they were never drawn/taught and therefore never were "given" the abiltity to come to Christ in faith or enabled to beleive in him.

Further, the word "taught" is defined in the interpretative part to mean both "heard....and learned" as it is impossible to be taught without BOTH hearing the teacher and without comprehending what is being heard. One cannot "have learned" without first having "heard" the teacher and neither can one "have heard" without having not "learned" what was heard as we shall prove.

Having "heard" refers to the internal work of the Father not the external audible speaking of men. This refers to the internal REVELATORY work of God within which was absent in those in verse 64. This refers to what jesus means when he says "he that hath an ear let him hear"! All men he was speaking to had physical ears but he was refering to those whom the Father had given ability to comprehend what he was saying. That ability has to be "given unto him" by the Father:

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

To "hear" in this sense means INNER COMPREHENSION but to "some" (Jn. 6:64) it is "not given." Hence, not "every man" is given the ability to have "HEARD" from the Father. To "hear" in this sense is the ability to comprehend and act upon it. Faith cometh by this kind of hearing and this kind of hearing comes only from the Father not from men and it comes only by His "word of command" (Gr. Rhema - Rom. 10:17) or the spoken command of God that effectually calls light of knowlege into the existence of a darkened heart just as God spoke light into existence in a darkened world:

2 Cor. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

The substance of faith is provided by the Father as inner revelation that is fully comprehended. This is the Father opening the heart of Lydia to comphrehend the truth of the gospel which is inseparable from having "learned"! Thus "ALL" or "EVERY MAN" thus taught by God always comes to Christ in faith.

The first invitation given by the Master WAS HEEDED BY NO MAN and furnished NO PROPERLY DRESSED GUESTS - this is the general call of the gospel by "word only." - "many are called"

Lu 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.


The second invitation uses the word "COMPEL" and this invitation was effectual in furnishing EVERY PROPERLY CLOTHED GUEST. - "few are chosen"

Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

The second invitation is the drawing power of the Father that always results in effectual coming to Christ.

What was given is the very thing they could not do without being draw by the Father and that is "COME UNTO ME" in faith which is the very element missing in verse 64 and that is the "it" which must be given by the Father.

The teaching is INNER REVELATION in addition to external and it is effectual hearing by the heart rather than merely external hearing by the ear.

None doubt the external preaching is necessary! However, the problem is not external but INTERNAL. The gospel is "word only" has no power to change the INTERNAL. However, when the gospel comes by CREATIVE POWER then there is an effectual INTERNAL REVELATION - 2 Cor. 4:6

However, whenever the gospel comes in "word only" there is only that general invitation first mentioned in the wedding parable that furnished no properly dressed guests and is always UNHEEDED:

Lu 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

Only those who were "COMPELLED" furnished the properly clothed guests for His wedding:

Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.

 

False and John 17:2 proves this is false! Eternal life is the consequence of being given to the Son not the equivilent to being given as you demand:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Instead "given" refers to be given in election to salvation. As many as the Father has given to him in election He gives eternal life unto. Spiritual union IS eternal life whereas being given RESULTS in eternal life. YOur interpretation is wrong. Being given by the Father is equal to being CHOSEN by the Father "TO salvation" or eternal life.

False and John 6:35 proves your interpetation is false. Come does not mean PHYSICAL TRAVEL TOWARD but is used for spiritual equivlent to believe in or SPIRITUAL ARRIVAL BY FAITH:

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Here "cometh" is EQUIVILENT to "believeth" as BOTH equally obtain spiritual satisfaction as both "hunger" and "thirst" do not refer to PHYSICAL any more than "cometh" refers to PHYSICAL.

Thus the verses you have misrepresented by false definitions of "cometh" and "given" should read as follows:



37 - All that the Father gives (chosen for) to Me will come to (believe in) Me, and the one who comes (believes in), to Me I will certainly not cast out.

44 - No one can come (beleive in) to Me , unless the Father who sent Me, draws (effectually works within) him, and I will raise him up (on the last day.

45 - It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught (inward transformation by divine revelation) of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, (enabled to hear)) and hath learned (effectual comprehension) of the Father, cometh (believeth in) unto me.

64 - But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come (believe in) unto me, except it (belief) were given unto him of my Father.

Finally, both hearing and learning in John 6:45 have NOTHING to do with EXTERNAL actions the human messangers of the gospel but the INTERNAL work "of the Father."

 

Do you expect us to believe this written remorse on your part is anything but hypocrisy???

What is sad is you are wrong! The word "all" and "everyone" in verse 45, which verse is given to further explain what He means by "draw" does demand "ALL" drawn/taught do in fact, "every man" thus taught does come in faith to Christ.

Take note that being drawn in verse 44 is the work of the Father not of men or human messengers and the teaching in verse 45 is the work of the Father not of human messangers. Furthermore the clarification of what it means to be "taught" by God is the INTERNAL work of the Father (heard, learned) not the EXTERNAL work of human messengers.

Take note that 45 is mere scripture quotation while verse 45b is inspired interpretation of that quotation and the same Greek word translated "all" in verse 45a is the same Greek word translated "every man" in verse 45b.

Take note that "taught" in verse 45a is defined as enabled INTERNAL hearing and enabled INTERNAL learning as INTERNAL TEACHING requires both ABILITY to hear what is taught BY THE FATHER as well as INTERNAL COMPREHENSION. Note that "ALL" in the quotation are taught and thus NONE of the "ALL" fail to be taught and likewise in the interpretation "EVERY MAN" thus taught does come to faith in Christ and therefore you are wrong! Every man thus drawn does come to Christ and only they are the EXCEPTION to the universal "no man can come" as NONE who merely EXTERNALLY hear and learn come to Christ in faith as shown in John 6:64.

 

I give undeniable clear explicit detailed biblical evidence your interpretation is wrong and you give nothing but personal OPINIONS without a shred of Bibical evidence in return! You talk about a waste of time responding? You talk about misdirection and misrepresentation!

1. John 6:35 completely repudiates your view of coming to Christ is physical "travel to" IN THIS CONTEXT as this verse clearly defines "come" to mean "believe" or come to Christ in faith.

2. John 17:2 completely repudiates your view of being given to Christ is being placed Spiritually in Christ as spiritual death is being "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) whereas the reverse spiritual life is being brought into Spiritual union with Christ. However, eternal life/spiritual union is the CONSEQUENCE of being given in John 17:2 and not the act of being given as your interpetation demands.

3. John 6:64-65 completely repudiates your view that Christ draws all men
without exception to Himself as those in John 6:64 had never been drawn in the contextual sense of being drawn to Christ as John 6:65 explicity demands.

4. John 6:45 completely repudiates your view that drawing refers to EXTERNAL means by men but is explicitly stated to the be work of the Father which occurs INTERNALLY as fully explained by Paul in 2 Cor. 4:6 as an EFFECTUAL COMMAND by God and as clearly stated by Christ in Matthew 16:17 to be solely the work of the Father rather than "flesh and blood."


5. John 6:45 completely repudiates your view that not "ALL" drawn come to Christ as the scripture quotation demands that "draw" equals "taught" and "ALL" of which this scripture refers to NONE fail to be taught and those in John 6:64-65 were NOT included in that "ALL" because they are explicitly identifed as not being drawn by the Father. Furthermore, "ALL" equals "EVERY MAN" in the explanation of the scripture quotation and "heard" and "learned" equal "taught" in the scripture quotation and NONE fail to come to Christ.

6. John 6;65 completely repudiates your view of "heard" and "learned" as these are results of the Father's work not the results of men and thus these are INTERNAL acts obtained by God's work not the work of men. Having "heard" is equivilent to having "ears to hear" as in Matthew 13:9 which most of those present with literal physical ears listening to him were without and such ability must be given and God does not give it to all but only those given to Christ. "heard" is the result of God giving SPIRITUAL ability whereas "Learned" is a result of God giving SPIRITUAL comprehension of the truth as clearly spelled out in 2 Cor. 4:6 which comes as a direct effectual command of God where the gospel is used by God as the vehicle to express his Word of Command that actually creates INTERNAL SPIRITUAL LIGHT so that this person believes the gospel.

 

This is complete hogwash! The SAME gospel was preached before and after the cross (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; etc.). The same way of salvation and the same Savior (Mt. 7:13-14; Jn. 14:6; Acts 4:12).

He did purpose to build a new ADMINISTRATIVE house of God as a living congregational body that consisted of a qualified ministry, members and capable of administering ordinances but this is not to be equated with salvation but with a new public administrative service IN His Kingdom on earth.

Absolute nonsense! The princples applied here are universal not limited to a restricted time period as both giving and coming are in direct connection with obtaining eternal life - Jn. 17:2. In every generation prior to Israel's existence or during the period between Moses and Christ or between Christ and His secod advent there are always those being hardened by exposure to truth as well as those given to Christ by the Father through election to come to Christ in faith. Just because it is occuring when Christ was on earth within the sphere of redemptive activity (Jewish) does not mean it is unique to that time frame or to that people.

Your feeble attempt here reminds me of New Lighters who claim that since most New Testament epistles were written to churches and church members then the total contents have no application to anyone outside of church membership! The same kind of foolish reasoning lays at the heart of your misinterpretation of these scriptures.