Featured Sympathy for the Arminian, Part 3

Your problem is that Jesus did not compare lost persons to persons born physically blind, but said they "closed their eyes". They were not unable to see, Jesus said if they opened their eyes and heard with their ears they would be converted and he would heal them.

A person who closes their eyes is not UNABLE to see.

 

Why do Calvinists act like a person being obstinate and not listening is some sort of magical thing? A little kid will refuse to eat his carrots, and nobody thinks it would take a supernatural miracle to change his mind.

Calvinism is a superstitious mystical religion, not unlike it's mother Roman Catholicism.

 

Instead of complaining/mocking why not prove your point with scripture

 

First of all, you will not find anybody here at BB that submits more scripture to prove his points that I do. NONE.

Second, it is Calvinism that claims man is unable to respond to the gospel, it is Calvinism that needs to prove this with scripture.

So let's see what you've got, let me see scripture that says men are unable to respond to the gospel.

 

This is not true.

Calvinism teaches that sinful man is not able to respond to the Gospel while in his sinful state. Visit this THREAD if you want to see this subject vetted. Read post #89.

 

First, congratulations.
Second, our eyes must be enlightend for us to see. Ephesians 1:18 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Third, I don't think Calvinist believe no one can respond to the gospel(in any case I do not). I don't believe anyone would be saved if that was the case.

 

JE,

Winman does offer many scriptures....so much out of context that they really are not scripture anymore. You will see this very soon as he repeats himself every half hour or so:wavey:

 

I do not seek or need your (or anybody else's) approval. But you made a remark about proving my points with scripture. You will find I quote scripture to support my views constantly.

To be enlightened means to be taught. It means to acquire KNOWLEDGE. It does not mean to be supernaturally zapped the way Frankenstein was in the old movie.

It is not being zapped that enables a man to believe in Jesus, it is being taught.

Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Who did Jesus say comes to him in faith? Those who have been TAUGHT. He did not say they had to be zapped. But man has the responsibility to HEAR and LEARN. Every man who does listen to God and learns from him shall come to Jesus in faith. This is what Jesus himself taught.

That is why we are commanded to TEACH all nations. Why should we teach the nations if a man can only believe if God zaps him? You seem bright, doesn't that seem nonsensical?

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Knowledge is what enables men to believe, that is why Jesus commanded us to teach the nations. Do you see that now?

Well, truth is, no two Calvinists believe exactly the same. But many do believe man is utterly unable to positively respond to the gospel unless they are first regenerated.

The scriptures teach the opposite, the scriptures teach that those men who believe the gospel shall be regenerated.

 

No, Paul had just finished explaining how they were chosen for salvation and predestined because of God's love. Pretty sure Paul is speaking of a saving knowledge, however I am prone to error with my limited understanding.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44 ESV)

 

:laugh:I got a good laugh out of this

 

I caught that too. He has some rather strange illustrations. I sense desperation on his part.

 

No kidding.

As though I wasn't aware that Calvinism teaches a man must be regenerated to respond...

Yeah, I wasn't aware of that.

 

What? Saving knowledge is not knowledge?

Yes, and the next verse explains how a man is drawn, by being taught by the Father. And what does teaching impart? KNOWLEDGE.

 

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Paul said the Gentiles do "by nature" the things contained in the law. That's a good thing, where is the problem?

Yes, maybe a child has to be regenerated to eat carrots? Why not? His will is set against it, and we all know according to Calvinism he has no free will to choose otherwise. Maybe he needs to be zapped.

I agree, it is God who does the supernatural when he regenerates a man. Man's part is very "natural"- he simply believes. People believe things all the time, nothing special about that.

That is not what 1 Cor 2:14 says. It does not mention the gospel. It is speaking of "the things of the Spirit of God" which are freely given to believers. The gospel is not mentioned once in this chapter.

The gospel is so simple a little child can understand it and be saved;

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

This verse doesn't say a person has to be regenerated to believe the gospel, it says the scriptures are ABLE to make even a child WISE unto salvation. It is knowledge that enables a person to believe.

Chaos? Better call Maxwell Smart.

"I" am the status quo? Who knew?

 

Calvinist believe their is a choice, however the notion of free will is just silly!
Free Will-the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
Hypothetically if your not predestined by God, then your still influenced by your own sinful nature, therefore you have no free will either way(not to make the choice).

 

Well, God said men DO have free will;

Lev 1:1 And the LORD called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto the LORD, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD.
4 And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering; and it shall be accepted for him to make atonement for him.

God speaking to Moses said that "any man of you" referring to the Jews could bring an offerning to him, and they were to do it of their "own voluntary will".

Now, that is FREE WILL my friend, from the mouth of God himself. So don't tell me man does not have free will.

And note also that God said it would be accepted as an atonement for him.

So, you can believe your Reformed philosophy, or you can believe the word of God, which is it?

 

Now, I don't quote commentators too often, I prefer to quote scripture, but I thought I would quote Charles Spurgeon for Protestant and others that think that faith is "magical" and that a man has to be supernaturally zapped to have the ability to believe the gospel.

Spurgeon agreed with me that believing the gospel is a very normal and natural thing for men to do;

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1031.htm

As you see, Spurgeon said faith in Christ "is like faith in anyone else". It is not some magical, mystical thing as many portray it, it is not something that comes in visions or dreams.

No faith in Christ is like faith in anyone else and is based upon "the same kind of mental processes, upon simple principles and plain matters of fact", and requires no magical or mystical properties for man to believe. In fact Spurgeon implies that such a magical and mystical faith is not "true faith" at all.

So, Spurgeon agreed with me. :thumbs: