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Featured The Heresy of Investigative Judgment

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by OldRegular, Dec 7, 2013.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The "actual Bible"? What other Bible is there Bob? You are the one using EWG sources. Not me.
    Of course. The OT is always in agreement with the NT. Who said otherwise.
    Your interpretation is not in agreement; it is in agreement with EGW, not with the Bible. There is the difference. There is no "investigation" being spoken of in Daniel. The "books were opened," and that is all. Don't read more into the passage than that which is being said.
    As I challenged you, why don't you actually take what I said and refute it, instead of copying and pasting the same thing over and over again.
    • No one disputes the veracity of these verses Bob, only your interpretation of them.
    They speak of the Great White Throne Judgment which takes place just after the Millennial Kingdom. All the unsaved, described there as unsaved, will receive their final sentence. There is not one saved person that stands in that judgment. The works done will point to the degree of punishment in the Lake of Fire that they will receive. Even there some will suffer more than others--eternally.

    Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
    24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
    --The day of judgment in verse 24 is the same day of judgment referred to in Revelation 20. How will it be more tolerable in the Lake of Fire for those of the land of Sodom than those of the land of Capernaum? There are degrees of punishment, obviously.
    Capernaum saw the very works of Jesus; Sodom, though a wicked city did not see the works of Jesus. Had they seen the works of Jesus they would have repented. Therefore their punishment will not be as great as it will be for the people of Capernaum.
    This is the teaching of Christ. It is according to their works. There is no investigation. Jesus already knows this from the foundation of the world. He is God.
    I said this:
    In answer to your question: Why do I keep quoting the Bible and keep explaining it, and then asking why you can't refute it? Because you don't. You don't give an intelligent answer for the posts and Scripture that I give you. You don't even try. Talk about Bible details; you avoid them completely. I go through the passage verse by verse. You avoid the explanations completely. You act like a J.W. and jump to other "details," that you would rather discuss "circling your wagons around the details" you can't refute. Why is that Bob?
    Yes, they do. You should give some Biblical ones. Quoting the same verse in five or so different translations isn't "giving details." It is showing the board your excellent ability to copy and paste.
    No, I expounded the Scriptures, explained them for you. Now you say I am the one making up things. Making up things is trying to fit the scripture into the dark ages. That is pure nonsense. Neither Daniel nor John were speaking of the Dark Ages, and you can't prove that they were. You are just "making up things." Fanciful, imaginative, fairy-tales.
     
    #161 DHK, Dec 30, 2013
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    A+ Pulpit pounding with added "harrrumph!". Quite impressive.

    F- sola scriptura

    So then... more of the same.
     
    #162 BobRyan, Dec 31, 2013
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I am very glad to see you accept that Bible detail.

    more please.

    By contrast to the "Actual DHK" we have the "actual Bible".

    As noted above. Shall I quote the texts you are ignoring "again"??

    That is what I am banking on.

    Nice of you to notice that one as well.

    See? Not all is lost.

    The model for judgment is the same books are opened for the purpose of actually "noticing" what they contain.

    As shocking as this appears to be in your wrench-and-bend of Daniel 7 this obvious fact fits both the Rev 20 description and the Daniel 7 reference to the books as they are used in judgment.

    "By their fruits you shall know them" said Christ in Matt 7. There are books of remembrance and as Christ said in Matt 12 "every word spoken" is to be accounted for. All Bible details that do not fit your notion of the form "the books were opened then they do nothing with the contents".




    Indeed there are - Luke 12:45-47 and what is written in the books is the basis for assigning that exact amount of punishment in the case of the lost.

    But in the case of the saved what is written in the books is used to get to the result that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22.

    So here again - just stating the obvious.



    surely you are not "circling back" to that old rant again.

    I simply point to the Bible texts where your argument chokes and requires that you post direct contradictions to the teaching of scripture -- in this case the scripture that points to how books are used in judgment.

    As long as your argument keeps choking there - why would I want to avoid your opportunity to demonstrated it "again"??

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #163 BobRyan, Dec 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2013
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Sola Scripture for the no-hellers

    There are some no-hellers on this Forum who routinely parrot "Sola Scripture" as if they alone rely on Scripture. That claim is absolutely false, a deliberate lie. Their concept of "Sola Scripture" is to find an obscure passage, take it out of context, select a phrase or two and insist they have proven their heresy. The two they are obsessed with now are:

    1. Investigative Judgment and
    2. Saved; Oops, Lost it; Saved again; Oops, Lost it again; and so on and on and on. Their belief is in an "impotent god", unable to keep what belongs to him.

    Each of the above are blasphemous doctrines because they deny both "Sola Scripture" and the Sovereignty of God. Consider what Scripture teaches about both the Judgment and Salvation; first a passage from that Chapter in Paul's writings these "no-hellers" like to brandish:

    Romans 11:29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

    What are the "gifts and calling" of God. Consider what "Sola Scripture" tells us about that most precious Gift of God:

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    The Gifts and calling of God are without repentance. That means that God does not change His mind about the Gift of Salvation. Those He saves are saved eternally. Consider what "Sola Scripture" tells us further about salvation. I use the NASB rather than the KJV because the NASB uses judgment instead of condemnation, helping the no-hellers out.

    John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

    Now "eternal life" is "eternal life" and is the "Gift of God". And "Sola Scripture" has told us that God does not change His mind about His Gifts. Consider now what Jesus Christ tells us about the ones who have received the "Gift of God", namely, he who has received the "Gift of God" does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. There is no Judgment for the adopted Children of God! Jesus Christ took their Judgment on the Cross.
     
    #164 OldRegular, Dec 31, 2013
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Comments on errors/heresies in the SDA Statement of Faith

    At this time it is well to consider what the Statement of Faith of the SDA says about Salvation and Judgment.[http://www.adventist.org/fileadmin/...es/official-statements/28Beliefs-English.pdf]

    The above is perhaps consistent with an Arminian doctrine of Salvation though it seems weak on the necessity of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ and use of “Example” has remnants of Pelagianism. Note that it seems to teach the Security of the "true believer" contrary to what some of the no-hellers on this forum teach.


    The above is the invention of man and has no basis in “Sola Scripture”!


    The above is outright heretical in that it adds to “Sola Scripture” and provides the basis for the heretical “Investigative Judgment”.


    The above seems to reasonably reflect the views of many in Orthodox Christianity if indeed they truly believe that “Salvation is all of grace”. Obedience is essential in the life of the “true believer”. However, the no-hellers on this Forum believe that Salvation is retained only by those who live a sinless life.


    There is no basis in “Sola Scripture” for the above heretical nonsense. Rather it is the invention of man and Ellen G. White out of the 19th century which gave us an abundance of Cults. Furthermore it contradicts Items 10 & 19 above.


    Annihilation is contrary to “Sola Scripture”. This belief is the rationale for my descriptive term no-hellers in reference to some on this Forum.

    Additional information on the SDA beliefs are found at [http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/denominations/seventh_day_adventist.htm] Of particular interest is the following:

     
    #165 OldRegular, Dec 31, 2013
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Since this thread is about the Investigative Judgment - back to the topic.

    In Dan 7:10 the "books are opened" so also in Rev 20:12.

    Book of Remembrance Malachi 3:16
    Book of Life - Ps 69:28, Phil 4:3, Rev 3:5 13:8
    Books of Record - (deeds written in them) - Rev 20:12,

    Deeds that will be brought up in the day of Judgment.

    2Cor 5:10 "shall give an account for the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil"
    Matt 12:36-37 "give an account for every word spoken"'

    The court of haven sits - and "the books were opened" Dan 7:9-10 at the exact time predicted in Daniel 7.
     
    #166 BobRyan, Dec 31, 2013
  7. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Where o where have I seen the above misuse of Scripture!

    Actually Ryan I am multi tasking in the above posts. i proved two of your errors to be heretical in one post then pointed out the numerous errors/heresies in the SDA Statement of Faith. In your above quoted post you demonstrate the truth of my last two posts in which I state:

    I suspect Ryan you will have to give an account of all the error/heresy you have supported on this Forum. Hopefully it will come in this life because Scripture tells us:

    Hebrews 9:24-27
    24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
    25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
    26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
    27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    And that judgment is not Investigative Judgment. God already knows those who are His.

    The comments I presented in the OP are still valid:

    You might contrast the Word of God presented in Hebrews 9:24-27 with the heretical remarks of Uriah Smith and Ellen White which I present in the OP and again above.
     
    #167 OldRegular, Dec 31, 2013
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary - you invented a false accusation and then proceeded to "not support it" with actual fact.

    Were we simply supposed to "not notice"??

    Do you really think that you can dismiss these Bible texts with mere railing accusation?

    back to the topic of the Investigative Judgment as we find it in places like Daniel 7:9-10 and the books that are used in judgment in both OT and NT.

    In Dan 7:10 the "books are opened" so also in Rev 20:12.

    Book of Remembrance Malachi 3:16
    Book of Life - Ps 69:28, Phil 4:3, Rev 3:5 13:8
    Books of Record - (deeds written in them) - Rev 20:12,

    Deeds that will be brought up in the day of Judgment.

    2Cor 5:10 "shall give an account for the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil"
    Matt 12:36-37 "give an account for every word spoken"'

    The court of haven sits - and "the books were opened" Dan 7:9-10 at the exact time predicted in Daniel 7.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #168 BobRyan, Dec 31, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2013
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The OP is correct. God keeps eternally secure those who are saved through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Those who continue to dispute this Biblical truth are making a liar out of God. They are guilty of blasphemy.

    Those who cling to Investigative Judgment and the teachings of Ellen G. White raise questions about their experience of Grace!
     
    #169 OldRegular, Jan 1, 2014
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The man-made tradition of OSAS is loaded with speculation proving that OSAS is only promoted by extreme inference. Matt 18 debunks it, Matt 6 debunks it, Romans 11 debunks it, Gal 5:4 debunks it, 1Cor 6 debunks it, Ezek 18 debunks it...

    Next we will contrast the stated OSAS inferences pointing out that these OSAS statements are found nowhere in scripture.

    Enjoy!

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #170 BobRyan, Jan 1, 2014
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    OR is right:

    The doctrine of eternal security is taught throughout the Bible in almost every book. How then can it be man-made? For you to say such a think is one of the most ludicrous statement ever made.

    For you are the one that follows a woman-made doctrine of "investigative judgment," a complete and thorough heresy, one which Peter calls, a damnable heresy. You are following the teaching of a false prophetess. And when did she live? When did she come on the scene? This doctrine was unknown before her time? Search the history books and try and find it. You won't have any success. If is a false female-originated doctrine straight from the pit of hell.
     
    #171 DHK, Jan 1, 2014
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "a woman-made doctrine"

    Lol! Well put!
     
    #172 kyredneck, Jan 1, 2014
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In fact it is taught nowhere in scripture and so it must be "injected by inference" into a text here or there.

    By contrast the pre-advent Investigative Judgment is taught in the actual Bible.


    In Dan 7:10 the "books are opened" so also in Rev 20:12.

    Book of Remembrance Malachi 3:16
    Book of Life - Ps 69:28, Phil 4:3, Rev 3:5 13:8
    Books of Record - (deeds written in them) - Rev 20:12,

    Deeds that will be brought up in the day of Judgment.

    2Cor 5:10 "shall give an account for the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil"
    Matt 12:36-37 "give an account for every word spoken"'

    The court of haven sits - and "the books were opened" Dan 7:9-10 at the exact time predicted in Daniel 7.

    ===============

    "the Bible says" -

    Dan 7:10
    Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
    And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
    The court sat,
     And the books were opened.

    This is in complete harmony with the way that John describes judgment in the NT - based on things written in the books of heaven.

    Rev 20:12

    • New American Standard Bible
      And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
    • King James Version
      And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



    • Holman Christian Standard Bible
      I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books.



    • New King James Version
      And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

    Details matter even when they do not pander to the man-made tradition of OSAS or to Calvinism.


    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #173 BobRyan, Jan 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2014
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Scripture is abundantly clear that Those who are “the saved” are brought into union with Jesus Christ and are given eternal life to be enjoyed in the presence of God. Since they are children of God they are kept Eternally Secure by God. Yet there are some on this Forum who falsely, and I believe deliberately, reject Scripture and blasphemously try to teach that God is unable to keep those who belong to Him, those for whom Jesus Christ died. They are unable to refute Scripture such as those shown below and make no attempt to do so. Rather these people would have us believe that God is simply a “glorified bookkeeper, endlessly erasing and writing names in the Book of Life. They are perfectly willing to give the lie to both Scripture and God who gave it. And they do it over and over and over.

    John 6:35-40
    35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
    36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
    37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 10:27-30
    27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
    29. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
    30. I and [my] Father are one.


    And then the Apostle Paul tells us:

    Romans 8:38, 39
    38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Romans 8:28-30
    28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
    29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    And then the Apostle John writes:

    1 John 3:1, 2
    1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


    It is my opinion that those who would deny the truth taught in the above Scripture, making God a liar, raise questions about their own experience of Grace! And they do this routinely over and over again, apparently never giving a thought to their blasphemy.
     
    #174 OldRegular, Jan 1, 2014
  15. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I started this thread but to prevent Ryan and E-7 from using it to post their blasphemous nonsense I ask the moderator to close it.
     
    #175 OldRegular, Jan 1, 2014
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