Featured honest question to PB's and Reformed's

He said, "ALL were saints who had received jesus in this life", never mind that there is no scripture to back that up.

He, along with a multitude of others, has placed no thought into what Christ was revealing in Jn 3:8, or 10:16, or what's revealed in 1:13, or Col 1:26,27, or Ro 2:13-15.

 

I don't think this can excuse not hearing the gospel and by Gods grace responding. Later Paul follows up with Ephesians 1:13 13*In him you also, when you heard ethe word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, fwere sealed with the gpromised Holy Spirit.

 

great Commission matthew to be done UNTIL he returns again!

paul in Romans Lord commands us to take the message, to preacg it to ALL men

John 3:16 whoever hers and believes unto Jesus they are saved, right?

We don't know who will be saved, so NO vese states 'just preach to the elect", for ONLY God knows whom they are!

 

I would see those 'special cases" as indeed God election of those persons to be found in jesus, atonedfor by his death on their behalf, but if you are NOT in that special category, then saved by grace alone thru faith alone still remains!

 

Are there ANY verses that clearly state thatone can be saved bygod apart from receiving jesus thru faith as our Messiah/Saviour/Lord?

I cannot find any!

 

So you hold to hardline restrictivism, the unevangelized have no hope?

 

OK so, then explain this to me in detail .....if infants, the feeble minded, and the heathen must hear the gospel preached by man and actively repent and believe the truth, I would surmise that you have relegated them to hell then, correct?

 

No, as a calvinist, I hold that God will make sure that His elect will somehow/someway get the message, and he will sue that to save them and confirm their election was of God!

 

Thats what I would label either Hyper Calvinism or Hyper Arminiasm.....and I dont use these terms loosely. But having stood in debate with these Hardliners, thats what I am forced to conclude. Very Very Frustrating!

 

Y, can you show me that in scripture?

 

And here I thought it had something to do with gas! :laugh:

 

What verse/passage states the God will save all or any babies/infants though?

I hold that He does, but where is that scripture then?

 

Scripture please.

 

Of those able to believe unto salvation, they still have to hear to believe that report!
Didn't paul state that in Romans?

 

"This debate over whether or not the church functions in a redemptive or pastoral role goes back as far as the third century. Cyprian’s famous dictum, Extra ecclesiam nulla salus – “There is no salvation outside the church” – identifies the logical basis of the “means of grace” position. Those who argue that eternal life is mediated through the Christian gospel and/or Christian ordinances are reasoning from the premise that the church is a redemptive institution."

Christ The Only Mediator by Elder Michael Gowens

 

I LOVE Larry, keep them coming:thumbs::godisgood:

We believe this issue is crucial, not peripheral, to the integrity of the gospel. Is the Lord Jesus Christ the one and only mediator (i.e. means, medium, instrument) of salvation, or is salvation mediated through the agency of gospel preaching, the sinner’s exercise of faith and repentance, or participation in the sacraments? Is Christ or the “church” the medium of eternal life? That was the root theological issue behind the Primitive/Missionary division, and it is still a question of no small importance to Christian orthodoxy

 

As of right now that is my belief. I hope this isn't the case, but feelings aside I know of no other verse that states otherwise.

 

I suggest you're inserting eternal consequences into passages where temporal consequences are actually the case.

 

I didn't make my position clear enough, I believe that exceptions are made for babies infants and possibly mentally I'll, however I would not apply that to "heathens" aka the biblical ignorant