honest question to PB's and Reformed's

[salzer mtn]

OK. You're wrong.

Ok, I will drop the kingdom of God and say kingdom, am I still wrong ? I have some PB literature some where that I think will back me up. I know the THE Baptist church I belong to but not active in believe when you are saved you are in the kingdom and then when you join the THE Baptist church you are and only then in the church. If I remember right the PB's believed the very opposite of this.

 

[Iconoclast]

Christians may in fact be carnal, allowing the old nature to dominate, as the Corinthian Church reveals (1 Cor. 3:1-4).

Wrong.....

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

 

[kyredneck]

Ok, I will drop the kingdom of God and say kingdom, am I still wrong ? I have some PB literature some where that I think will back me up. I know the THE Baptist church I belong to but not active in believe when you are saved you are in the kingdom and then when you join the THE Baptist church you are and only then in the church. If I remember right the PB's believed the very opposite of this.

Landmarkism has taken hold with some PBs, just as with some other Baptists, that may the angle for the exclusiveness you're referring to.

PBs in my area are the most tolerant folks you could ever meet.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Landmarkism has taken hold with some PBs, just as with some other Baptists, that may the angle for the exclusiveness you're referring to.

PBs in my area are the most tolerant folks you could ever meet.

Is that because they are not puritanical like some Calvinist we know.:love2:

 

[saturneptune]

Wrong.....

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Those are solid verses. We continue to have the old nature, but the key is, it does not dominate. The new nature does. Any time sin comes up, it is a much more minor degree than dominate. Basically, and hope you agree with this, all sorts of warnings sound in a Christian when sin crops up. The temptation will either be dismissed immediately or shortly thereafter, repentance is given and forgiveness sought. If the old sin nature "dominates" the person was never saved in the first place. Sometimes in modern terms we call that habitual or blatant, practicing sin. Big difference and the difference between eternal life and death.

 

[convicted1]

Those are solid verses. We continue to have the old nature, but the key is, it does not dominate. The new nature does. Any time sin comes up, it is a much more minor degree than dominate. Basically, and hope you agree with this, all sorts of warnings sound in a Christian when sin crops up. The temptation will either be dismissed immediately or shortly thereafter, repentance is given and forgiveness sought. If the old sin nature "dominates" the person was never saved in the first place. Sometimes in modern terms we call that habitual or blatant, practicing sin. Big difference and the difference between eternal life and death.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Wrong.....

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

You need to become a Calvinist...I mean you are one now. Complete the act....go join with them.

 

[kyredneck]

Christians may in fact be carnal, allowing the old nature to dominate, as the Corinthian Church reveals (1 Cor. 3:1-4).

Wrong.....

How so? Three times in that text Paul says that they are carnal:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not with meat; for ye were not yet able to bear it: nay, not even now are ye able;
3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men? ! Cor 3

Their walk was after the manner of men.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Those are solid verses. We continue to have the old nature, but the key is, it does not dominate. The new nature does. Any time sin comes up, it is a much more minor degree than dominate.

If you scoot a bit deeper down into the text you find:

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof:
13 neither present your members unto sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves unto God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. Ro 6

Why bother to even state this if it were not possible? The redeemed born from above child of God is capable of doing everything they're told NOT to do in the book.

 

[convicted1]

You need to become a Calvinist...I mean you are one now. Complete the act....go join with them.

Brother, just because I agree with them here, doesn't mean I agree with them on everything. Shoot, I'd venture a guess you don't agree with everything associated with PB/OSB.

I don't ascribe to absolute predestination of all things, neither gospel regeneration.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother, just because I agree with them here, doesn't mean I agree with them on everything. Shoot, I'd venture a guess you don't agree with everything associated with PB/OSB.

I don't ascribe to absolute predestination of all things, neither gospel regeneration.

Good.....we Baptists need cohesion. No shenanigans. And I can joke about many things but about what we have here and who we are in Christ....about that I am deadly serious.

 

[Yeshua1]

You then understand d our position.....good!:thumbs:

I am NOT a PB, and I too hold that the Lord has made provision for 'special cases" thru the Cross of Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Build your case from scripture that 'saved' means what you gom it up to mean.

From scripture, show sozo to be synonymous with the birth from above or the acquisition of eternal life.

Show from scripture that goats are transformed into sheep by the gospel.

the Bible clearly states that ALL of us are sinners before the Holy Spirit makes us born from above, so no Spirit, no life of Christ indwelling us, lost sinners, not reconciled back to the father yet!

Do you know ANY NT verses where one can be right with God before actually receiving jesus thru faith, and having then eternal Life?

 

[Yeshua1]

Rev. 7:9 - "After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

any more questions ?

ALL were saints who had received jesus in this life, and passed unto heaven after death!

 

[Yeshua1]

that's exactly what the Lord told the 11 at mount olives, in the hearing of others, to "go out and preach the gospel.....they that believe and are baptized shall be saved". paraphrase: "okay, guys, I done what my Father told me to do which is to get all of His elect saved for eternity. Now go out there, find as many of them as you can, and teach them what I taught you, so they can get saved for time for my glory and my Father's glory that the heathen may know there is a God in Israel".

well, now, here' One who just rose out of the dead, after shedding His own blood for the eternal redemption of His people, which the whole counsel of God says He did successfully ( and I hope you believe that, too) and now He is telling His disciples to get those same people saved again ?

God commanded that ALL sinners being preached the gospel, and that thePord will use that message to redeem His chosen elect by!

Do you deny jesus and paul stressed urgency, and that the message was to go out to ALL to hear?

 

[Yeshua1]

Wrong.....

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Would say that while we are no longer dominated by sin, that it no longer has mastery and rule over us, we still live inthis life with still sin principle at work in us, so we can still chose to sin and to do wrong, as to submit to what the 'flesh" wants us to do, but we as the saved can overcome and have the lord forgive and restore us from that!

 

[kyredneck]

the Bible clearly states that ALL of us are sinners before the Holy Spirit makes us born from above, so no Spirit, no life of Christ indwelling us, lost sinners, not reconciled back to the father yet!

Do you know ANY NT verses where one can be right with God before actually receiving jesus thru faith, and having then eternal Life?

ALL were saints who had received jesus in this life, and passed unto heaven after death!

God commanded that ALL sinners being preached the gospel, and that thePord will use that message to redeem His chosen elect by!

Do you deny jesus and paul stressed urgency, and that the message was to go out to ALL to hear?

Would say that while we are no longer dominated by sin, that it no longer has mastery and rule over us, we still live inthis life with still sin principle at work in us, so we can still chose to sin and to do wrong, as to submit to what the 'flesh" wants us to do, but we as the saved can overcome and have the lord forgive and restore us from that!

Scripture please. Present something tangible in lieu of your parroting, if that's possible for you to do. Don't shotgun, present one point at a time from scripture.

Do you not have Bible software from which you can c & p? I can direct you to where you can download electronic Bibles for free.

 

[pinoybaptist]

ALL were saints who had received jesus in this life, and passed unto heaven after death!

no. all is not all if the word only applies to a portion of it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am NOT a PB, and I too hold that the Lord has made provision for 'special cases" thru the Cross of Christ!

Hmmmmm, please try to understand the position that Old Baptists take on this (through our understanding of scripture). Namely that the great message of grace which is so firmly believed and preached by Old Schoolers declares that one may be a recipient of the mercy of God without hearing the report of it through the gospel and even without fully understanding what has taken place in his heart.

Therefore there is no special cases necessary other than being chosen before the foundations of the world.Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: There my brother is your special case.....its called election. And I know your a Calvinist so even you can appreciate it......well maybe not all Calvinists. :laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

no. all is not all if the word only applies to a portion of it.

again, ANY NT verse that denies that the church has been commissioned to preach the Gospel to ALL sinners?

That ANY have eternal life.reconciled back to god who never received Jesus thru faith while still alive?

As thiose in revelation were ALL those who had died in Christ, made a profession for/of him while still alive!