Featured Why is it such a big deal?

:laugh:yes brother.....when I use the smileys that become transformed into a hidden code:laugh: I am very arrogant also:thumbsup:

 

Alright boy, let me drop the hammer on you here. The bible uses trees in many places that symbolize man. The man who Christ annointed his eyes, when he came back, he stated he saw man as trees walking(Mark 8:24). In the Garden we see the Tree of Life, which is a symbol of Christ, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is a symbol of satan. Now, I am going to put this so neatly together that you'll reject the truth, if you reject this post.

As you can see, these passages using trees as their focal point, are using them in context of man. God is the One who plants these trees, and places them by rivers of water....the picture of the Holy Spirit....where they will produce their fruit(s) in due season. God planting those trees was a picture of us, whom He chose from before the foundation of the world. We were planted...a picture of us having our names written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. He planted us where we would come into contact with that sweet Spirit....regeneration going on here. The Spirit then works a will and a do in our life(Philippians 2:13). This causes us to bring fruit meet for repentance(Matthew 3:8). We bring forth fruits, showing that the Spirit is already at work, drawing us, bringing us to Christ.

In your theology, the trees plant themselves besides the water and grow fruit of their own volition. Those whom God has not planted, shall be rooted up and burned....the goats.

 

You must have been drinking your ovaltine.... :laugh:

 

If you trace our history, Brother, you'll find out that the ORB's started out as particular baptists, not general baptists. We can trace our heritage back to the Philadelphia Association of the 1700's.

Philadelphia Association was organized in 1701

The Philadelphia Association gave an arm and organized the Katockon Association in 1766.

The Katockon Association gave an arm and organized the Holsten association in 1783.

The Holsten association in 1783 gave an arm and organized the South Elkhorn Association in 1784.

The South Elkhorn Association organized the South Kentucky Association in 1787, which became the South and North District in 1801.

The North District Association gave an arm and organized the Burning Springs Association in 1813.

The Burning Springs Association gave an arm and organized the New Salem Association in 1825.


New Salem started out as an United Baptist association, and in the 1860's finally settled on ORB. The Union Association was given her arm from the New Salem in 1859.

A Brother by the named of Jordan Ashley was the Union's first moderator, and he was an hardshell baptist.

 

'Boy' is preferred over 'Brother Wes'.

 

Are you aware of brother Jeff Littlest book on the histoty of the old regulars in Kentucky?

 

I have the book that he and Brother Barry Lucas compilated that has a bunch of circular letters, some obits and some church minutes. It's a REALLY GOOD BOOK!!!

 

You do not even see it, but verse 27 is telling you of God's foreknowledge. God sees those persons who hear his voice, those who believe, and THEN he knows them.

That is why Jesus said, you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. If they believed, they would be the sheep.

God does not know us until we believe.

Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Note that vs. 8 speaks of believers before they heard the gospel. They did not yet know God.

But in vs. 9 we see these persons have now believed and know God.

But more importantly, we see that AFTER a person believes, NOW he is known of God, just as John 10:27 shows.

This is spoken of in time, and from our perspective happens in time, just as Paul is showing. But in God's foreknowledge, he knew us when we believed in time BEFORE the foundation of the world. And this is when he chose us "in him" in Ephesians 1:4, and this is when we became "his sheep" that were later given to Jesus.

So, when someone does not believe, Jesus can say, you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. If you were of my sheep you would believe.

That is because God chose persons "in him" people he foresaw who believed in time.

Calvinism's problem is that they deny God's foreknowledge is to know those who believe before it happens in time. Once you accept this, everything falls into place perfectly, and all of this scripture makes perfect sense.

 

False.

I 'foreknow' what's coming up in my garden because I planted it.

...Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Mt 15:13

What's your spin on this one?:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

 

Convicted1 all I am saying is I knew where you were headed by saying you are an ORB.

People don't read who Jesus describes as His sheep. I will tell you who they are not. They are not those who were His but was disowned for unbelief cut out not able to enter not because they were not chosen but for unbelief.

It is not the wise and learned who have no reason to listen and learn God hidden the truth from them.

It is simple those who eat they are the children of God. They become by what they eat not by who they are.

God can turn a stone to His child.

I believe they are born again the new creation born again by the word of God. They are His sheep not the one that are no longer His.

Only those who heard the message of their salvation having believed.

They are simple the one God prepared by His words those that trust in the Lord over their own understanding the weak.

 

False. God chose each and every one of us.

26 For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29 that no flesh should glory before God.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Cor 1

Praise the Lord!

 

You misrepresented what I have repeatedly said, here is what I said;

We are the elect, but we are only elect because we who have believed have been baptized into Jesus's body. Where he goes, we go also.

Ephesians 1:4 says we were chosen "in him" before the foundation of the world. God could do this because in his foreknowledge he could foresee us "in him" in time.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The scriptures say we are elect or chosen IN HIM. This is exactly what I have said from the beginning. Jesus is God's "chosen one" his "beloved". We have been made "accepted" or elect "in the beloved"

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This is not what Calvinism teaches. Calvinism teaches that God chose YOU outside Christ before you had ever believed on Jesus. YOU were not "in him" because you had not yet believed. It was AFTER God chose or elected YOU that God gave you the faith to believe on Jesus.

This is exactly what John MacArthur said. He understands Calvinism perfectly, but I think you do not.

Calvinism doesn't teach you were chosen "in him" (Jesus), it teaches you were chosen outside him BEFORE you had faith to believe on Jesus and be placed in him.

Scripture teaches we were made accepted or chosen "in the beloved" (Eph 1:6) but Calvinism teaches you were accepted and chosen by God outside of Jesus before you were able to believe.

Calvinism is error, plain and simple.

 

It doesn't change anything. Yet again the scripture contradicts your false premises; God chose ME and put ME in Christ Jesus. Me, a foolish, base, weak, despised thing, ME He chose. My salvation is a very personal thing between ME and Him.

And I don't know why!

Praise the Lord!

13 For thou didst form my inward parts: Thou didst cover me in my mother`s womb.
14 I will give thanks unto thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: Wonderful are thy works; And that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My frame was not hidden from thee, When I was made in secret, And curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! How great is the sum of them! Ps 139

 

False.

I 'foreknow' what's coming up in my garden because I planted it.

...Every plant which my heavenly Father planted not, shall be rooted up. Mt 15:13

What's your spin on this one?:

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
45 But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God. Jn 8

 

I believe he is talking about his new birth through His word where God is forming us majing us new not the birth were he was conceived in sin.


This mystery have been revealed to us through Peter.

We have been born again through His enduring word.


Psalm 119:105
[ ן Nun ] Your word is a lamp to my feet

 

The part of your statement I have highlighted in red is ERROR. God did not choose you outside Christ and then afterward place you in Christ. Scripture says we were chosen "in him".

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You yourself agree with John MacArthur that you believe you were chosen outside Christ and then afterward put in him. False!

This view makes you primary, not Jesus.

In the non-Cal view, Jesus is primary, he is the "elect one", the "chosen one", God's "beloved". Believers are only elect when they are baptized into his body and become elect "in him".

This is a very serious error in Calvinism and goes against all scripture.

 

You get on these 'kicks' don't you, you know, you imagine you've got some potent powerful weapon now that the Calvinists won't stand a chance against, you about wore out the parables of Lu 15 to show there's some that don't need repentance, and there's your great concern for the little babies kick, now you're going off the deep end trying to slay us Calvinists with this 'chosen in Christ' kick. Read the text, it's crystal clear:

For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory before God. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus...... 1 COR 1:26-30

Things, plural. Foolish things, weak things, base things, despised things, none of which are descriptive of Christ. And these things God chose, God placed in Christ.

 

YES!! And I don't know why!!

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 whereunto he called you through our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 2

Praise the Lord!

 

....and pity John MacArthur, I suppose you're going to weary us all with a John MacArthur kick now.

 

But you SHOULD know why, you were chosen IN HIM.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Your view honors man, it honors YOU. You may say you do not understand why God chose you, but for some reason he preferred you over many billions of people he has chosen to pass over and allow to go to hell.

You can tell me all day long that is humbling, but it's also got to boost the ego quite a bit! I mean, God chose ME! God chose ME!

And I think that is the great appeal of Calvinism. Trouble is, that is not what the scriptures teach. Scripture teaches that Jesus is the CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT, MY BELOVED.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

God didn't chose you per se, he chose Jesus. Jesus is his elect, his chosen, his beloved. Only when a person believes on Jesus and is baptized into his body do they become elect.

So, we have nothing to glory in or be proud about, we are getting in on Jesus's coattails.

This is the HUGE difference between Calvinism and non-Calvinism. You can tell me all day that you are not puffed up because you think God personally chose you, I don't believe it.

Calvinism honors man, not Jesus. That may make you angry, but it is the truth. You think God chose YOU outside Christ. That is not true.