Featured Evangelism

And you are wrong. What did the publican do to get saved? He simply cried out to God to be merciful to him, a sinner. That's it. That is about as simple as you can get.

And Jesus said this man was saved.

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

You are not getting it John, because you listen to men and not the scriptures.

The Pharisee was completely sure he was saved. Why? Because he did good works that proves he was saved. He did not commit evil sins like extortion (which publicans were known for) he was not unjust, or an adulterer, he fasted twice in the week, and gave tithes of all he possessed.

You would have been sure this Pharisee was saved with your view John, he was DOING everything a believer is supposed to do.

But he wasn't saved was he? No, and why not? Because he trusted in HIMSELF that he was righteous.

The publican was just the opposite, he did not dare boast that he was a good man doing everything God commanded. No, he simply beat on his chest and begged God to have mercy on him.

And he was saved.

John, a lot of these folks that are DOING all sorts of good works are completely LOST. And a lot of the folks you think are terrible sinners are SAVED.

You just don't get it. Faith is DEPENDING on Jesus alone to save you, it is not believing a set of facts and doing good works.

 

Do you know how most people get saved? Most people get saved as children coming to Sunday School or Vacation Bible School. These kids come because it is fun, they enjoy the activities.

But a good church will give a true gospel presentation to these children, and many believe. This is in fact how most Christians became Christians.

Some folks will come to church because of a dinner, or a Christmas play. A good preacher will take advantage of these opportunities to preach the gospel. A lot of folks followed Jesus around because they thought he was going to feed them. He did not chase them off, he preached to them and taught them.

You get more bees with honey than vinegar John.

 

Just how long do you think it takes to get saved?

I bet if you were honest, you would say a lifetime, because you do not believe a person is saved until they show continued works and evidence of salvation.

Is that what the scriptures teach? NO. The scriptures teach 3000 folks got saved at Pentacost in ONE day.

The scripture teaches the Ethiopian eunuch got saved while riding in a carriage. He got baptized right then and there. Philip didn't insist that he be observed for weeks or months to make sure he showed evidence of salvation, he accepted the eunuch's confession that he believed Jesus was the Son of God.

You would have probably blown this man off as a false convert.

How about the Philipian jailer? He heard a short sermon and got saved and baptized that same hour. Paul and Silas did not insist he show evidence of salvation before they believed he was saved.

It is your view that is not scriptural.

 

It's because he is always reading books by folks like MacArthur and Washer who question everybody's salvation.

I would bet if you followed MacArthur and Washer around, you would discover they were just as sinful as every other man.

I am not saved because I am always faithful to Jesus, and thank God for that! I am saved because Jesus will always be faithful to me.

Some folks just do not understand the difference.

 

He's pretty used to people being brash with him, I'm pretty sure he'll survive.

I am just the opposite of Evangelist, if someone tells me they accepted Jesus as their Saviour, I tend to believe them. That is not an easy thing to get folks to say.

Salvation is not what we do, but on whom we believe to save us.

A born again person is also compared to a tree in scripture. You cannot see a tree grow from day to day, but come back in ten years and you will see tremendous growth.

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

This is what is wrong with Lordship Salvation, it expects immediate results. That is not what the scriptures teach.

 

I'm reminded of the ten lepers. All ten asked for healing, and Jesus gave it; nine turned their backs and we hear no more of them. One remained faithful....

 

Yes, but all ten were healed which represents salvation.

It is unfortunate (and sinful) that we are not more appreciative and thankful for our salvation.

 

Not so sure it represents salvation....

 

[FONT=&quot]Mark 3:8 And from Jerusalem, and from Idumaea, and from beyond Jordan; and they about Tyre and Sidon, a great multitude, when they had heard what great things he did, came unto him.
9 And he spake to his disciples, that a small ship should wait on him because of the multitude, lest they should throng him.
10 For he had healed many; insomuch that they pressed upon him for to touch him, as many as had plagues.
11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

All that came to him were healed by him. We have no record of Jesus refusing to heal anyone. But not everyone healed was saved. A great multitude were healed, but there is no indication that all in the great multitude were saved.

Likewise in the ten lepers. We have evidence of only one who was thankful--the fruit of salvation, the evidence of being saved. It is unlikely that the other nine were saved.
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I was going to let this go but you did mention me by name so I feel compelled to reply. I find it insulting that you would hold such a low view of the evangelistic work of your co-laborers. You assume that because we do not do the work as the evangelist EXACTLY like you we reduce the blood-bought Gospel of Jesus Christ to parlor tricks, magic beans like Jack and the Beanstalk and pithy incantations you call the sinner's prayer.

You equate different methodology with a different Gospel. Your ignorance is only outweighed by your arrogance.

Why do you assume everyone beside you has abandoned the true ministry of the church? I bolded a portion of your quote to point out the obvious - the divine worship of the church is for (p)roclaiming and explaining the Word for the maturing and HOLINESS of believers should be at the heart of every church's ministry. That would be what we do inside the doors of the sanctuary when the saints are gathered be it Sunday morning, evening or mid-week. That is no place for a carnival. Bob's church wasn't gathered for worship. They got together to interact with generations that have no Christian memory on the ground of the lost. There they shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You pay people a dollar to listen to you or use counterfeit money tracts to get their attention. Why wouldn't it be fair to call that technique as carnival as a jump house? At least a jump house is exactly what it is represented as.

 

That's nonsense, because you had to have faith in Jesus to be healed.

Why couldn't the disciples heal the demon possessed boy?

Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

You had to have faith in Jesus to come to him for healing. Jesus often remarked that folks were healed because of their faith.

Mat 9:20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Those lepers would not have been healed unless they had faith in Jesus. That does not guarantee they will be disciples. Many people get saved, but then go back into the world (rocky soil, thorny soil) and bear no fruit. But they are saved.

 

Good post.

I must be on Evan6589 ignore list, since he rarely responds to my posts. I think Don is also on it. I'd say you are next.

 

Did Jesus lack faith? No, he healed them.
Did the disciples lack faith. Yes.
Did the one possessed lack faith. It didn't matter. It was irrelevant whether he had faith or not. He was healed in spite of "not having faith."

[FONT=&quot]Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.[/FONT]
--Peter healed everyone--thousands of those who came to him, whether or not they had faith. Faith is not a prerequiste to being healed.

Go to James 5. You are familiar with the passage, correct.
If any are sick let them go to the elders of the church.
They shall anoint him oil and pray, and the prayer of faith shall save the sick.

Whose faith will heal the sick, Winman?
Is faith a prerequisite on the part of the sick (the leper), or the elder (pastor)?

When the lepers came to Jesus, the only one required to have "faith" was Jesus himself. Of course since he is God, that statement isn't even necessary to say.

 

It's too bad the scriptures refute you. The reason the demon possessed boy could not be healed was because of the apostles unbelief. But when the father of the boy asked Jesus if he could do anything to help his son, Jesus asked if he (the father) could believe.

Mar 9:22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

The father of the boy had to believe before Jesus would heal his son.

Oh well, another non-scriptural view of DHK's goes down the drain.

 

This is today. This is NT instruction for churches today:

[FONT=&quot]James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.[/FONT]

Whose faith heals?

 

You are confusing two different things. In the case of the lepers, no one was coming forward for them, asking for them to be healed. In their case they were asking healing for themselves. They HAD to have faith or Jesus could not have healed them. You yourself have said many times God does not give grace to unbelievers.

Mar 6:1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

Why couldn't Jesus do any mighty works among his own countrymen? Because of their unbelief.

There are times when a person had to believe for another, as when the young girl died. She could not believe, so her parents had to believe for her. The demon possessed boy was out of his mind and could not believe for himself.

But when people could believe, they had to believe before Jesus could heal them. Jesus did not reward unbelief.

You are turning into a Calvinist, you believe Jesus heals people without faith, just like they believe Jesus regenerates someone without faith. They believe Jesus regenerates a man so that he can HAVE faith.

Total error.