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Featured Free will makes God appear impotent.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by convicted1, Aug 9, 2014.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Nineveh? Giant fish?

    foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD , and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." The Sovereign LORD declares-he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered." (Isaiah 56:6-8).
     
    #241 webdog, Aug 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2014
  2. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    Correct.....
    Not only that...but that is SPECIFICALLY the passage Jesus referenced when he chased out the money-changers in the Temple....They were insisting that Temple sacrifices be purchased ONLY with the Hebrew Shekel instead of a valuable currency, (it was the equivalent of offering a Peso for 1 $U.S Dollar) and they were rendering sacrificing un-affordable and economically impossible....

    It wasn't mere gross-profiteering that infuriated him...it was that the money-changers were PREVENTING GENTILES from going to the temple and worshipping God...

    Therefore:
    Anyone who says some uninformed, unscriptural un-godliness like this:
    And then, another Biblical illiterate who fails to comprehend what so INFURIATED Jesus about the money changers...... and sycophants it like this:
     
    #242 Inspector Javert, Aug 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2014
  3. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    He ignored that book of the Bible....his System has no reference from which to explain it, so he denies it exists altogether.
     
    #243 Inspector Javert, Aug 18, 2014
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    How could any sinner seek the true God and Jesus Christ if God did not first reveal himself and his Son to that sinner? Were you born knowing about the true God and the gospel?

    Do you still believe people get "zapped" with this knowledge?

    Or did you learn by hearing the preaching of the word of God?
     
    #244 Winman, Aug 18, 2014
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Shockingly the above was called "Uninformed,unscriptural ungodliness" by someone who claims to preach on occasion! His regretful remarks are an unreasonable and underprivileged understanding of the Word of God.

    Psalm 147:19,20 : He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the Lord.

    Acts 14:16 : In the past, he let all nations go their own way.
     
    #245 Rippon, Aug 19, 2014
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Not all Israel is Israel. Correct in speaking about Jonah and the Ninevahites. God quickens whosoever He will. He hardens whosoever He will.
     
    #246 convicted1, Aug 19, 2014
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    A Big Dose Of Sarcasm ( Forgive Me Lord)

    You mean God has that right? He gets to choose instead of people? He arrogates that kind of authority to Himself and not man? Who does He think He is...God?!

    Another thing. Isn't He obligated to show mercy to all? Isn't He fair-minded enough to give everyone a chance?

    How dare He harden anyone. That doesn't sound right. God is love. He can't harden anyone...can He? I don't know if I should trust Him with that kind of power. You make Him out to be the Sovereign Master of the Universe or something.
     
    #247 Rippon, Aug 19, 2014
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I've read, "the same sun that melts snow, hardens clay."
     
    #248 convicted1, Aug 19, 2014
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you actually agreeing with the scriptures now?

    That a sinner cannot come to Christ in order to get saved unless the Holy Spirit Himself enables him to do such?
     
    #249 Yeshua1, Aug 19, 2014
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God sought them, not them seeking God though. correct?

    And God was the One to make the sinners there repent and come to belief in him at the preaching of the prophet, correct?

    Sounds like Rippon had it all right!
     
    #250 Yeshua1, Aug 19, 2014
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Of course there is no scripture showing this being done in a Calvinist model. He doesn't nilly willy employ a cosmic eeny meeny miney moe.
     
    #251 webdog, Aug 19, 2014
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The passage in Isaiah I provided refutes this.
     
    #252 webdog, Aug 19, 2014
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Just a mere dose of common sense would refute it.
     
    #253 Rippon, Aug 19, 2014
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God owes no sinner anything, so that even if a sinner only gets saved by the Cross, doesn't that make God great, and worthy to be praised?
     
    #254 Yeshua1, Aug 19, 2014
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Do you ever actually read what people say? Or do you just constantly put words in other people's mouths they never said? A very dishonest form of debate if you ask me, you should be ashamed, but you never are.

    From day one I have said that no man is born knowing of the true God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you know of God and Jesus, it is because God through his Holy Spirit inspired men to write down his very words. The word of God is a supernatural work directly from the Father. I have ALWAYS said this, but you are too busy misrepresenting folks. Maybe you should pay attention once in awhile, then you wouldn't need to ask the same questions over, and over, and over again as you constantly do.

    When you hear the word of God, you are hearing God's Holy Spirit inspired words. His word is quick and alive, and able to pierce to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    That said, I do not believe God "zaps" you to believe, he TEACHES you to believe. It is knowledge that enables you to believe in Jesus. As Jesus said, every man that is TAUGHT of God comes to him, those men who have HEARD and LEARNED come to him.

    2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    See, God doesn't "zap" you to believe, he makes you "wise" to believe. He gives you knowledge.

    No where do the scriptures say a man must be regenerated or quickened or any other such term to come to him. They must simply take heed to God's word and LEARN from it to believe.

    Now, do you still believe a man has to be zapped to believe? Show where the Bible says that. I am betting you can't do it.
     
    #255 Winman, Aug 19, 2014
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Never said He did...
     
    #256 webdog, Aug 19, 2014
  17. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Romans 9:14-21 (YLT)


    "What, then, shall we say? unrighteousness [is] with God? let it not be! for to Moses He saith, `I will do kindness to whom I do kindness, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion;' so, then -- not of him who is willing, nor of him who is running, but of God who is doing kindness: for the Writing saith to Pharaoh -- `For this very thing I did raise thee up, that I might shew in thee My power, and that My name might be declared in all the land;' so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden. Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?' nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form [it], Why me didst thou make thus? hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?"


    Pharoah was one who God used to fulfill His purpose in bringing His people out of bondage. He raised him up for that very purpose....
     
    #257 convicted1, Aug 20, 2014
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    For Christ did not send me to baptize, but -- to proclaim good news; not in wisdom of discourse, that the cross of the Christ may not be made of none effect; for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, for it hath been written, `I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will bring to nought;' where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world? for, seeing in the wisdom of God the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing. [1 Cor. 1:17-21 (YLT)]


    Then there's Romans 1:16 and Ephesians 1:13. If all it took was to hear the gospel then the deaf would be hopeless and helpless. If all it took was to hear the gospel, then those who heard it would automatically be saved. Those who hear it w/o the Spirit working within them, it's just "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..." It takes an inner working of the Spirit to bring them to Christ.
     
    #258 convicted1, Aug 20, 2014
  19. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    You are just being silly now. It is not audible sound that regenerates a person, but Jesus Christ himself. The scriptures simply teach a man that if he will place his trust in Jesus, that Jesus will save that man, Jesus will regenerate that man, Jesus will forgive our sins and send his Spirit to dwell in that man.

    God does not require anything from us we cannot do. We are only expected to believe, to come to Jesus in our heart trusting and relying on him alone. This is to simply cast one's self on Jesus in utter dependence. If we do this (which is actually a ceasing of all work or effort to save ourselves), Jesus will do the supernatural work we cannot do. He will save us, he will wash us clean, he will come and dwell in us.

    Your doctrine has done a great job of convincing you that you cannot be saved. :thumbsup:
     
    #259 Winman, Aug 20, 2014
  20. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, well, well, if it's not Cap'n Obstinate. Have you ever conceded on point since you've joined? If not, then you obviously have all the answer. Hey fellas, we need to toss our bibles outta the window and listen to the Vicar of Baptistboard.

    Again, you stated the gospel has to be heard. Your words, I didn't put them in your post, you did. If they have to hear the gospel preached, then every deaf person has zero chance at salvation. Quite sad. I agree that they need the gospel, but the gospel has to have the Spirit moving in that lost person, something deeper than the auduble hearing. It effectually draws people when the Spirit is working in a lost sinner.


    You're right about faith doing what it does, it's the source that has you grotestquely(sp?) in error. Faith is the gift of God, as He deals it to man(Romans 12:3) and He is the Author and Finisher of our faith(Hebrews 12:2).
     
    #260 convicted1, Aug 20, 2014
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