Free will makes God appear impotent.

[webdog]

Exactly!! :thumbsup:

The rest were left to worship:

Old Testament idols
The following "gods" are specifically named in the Old Testament

1. Dagon 1 Samuel 05:02 etc Philistine/Ekronian/Babylonian god of agriculture
2. Milcom 1 Kings 11:05 Ammonite god
3. Ashtoreth 1 Kings 11:05 etc Canaanite goddess
4. Chemosh 1 Kings 11:07 etc Moabite war god
5. Molech 1 Kings 11:07 Ammonite God, also called Moloch, most probably Baal-Hammon of Carthage
6. Rimmon 2 Kings 05:18 Babylonian/Syrian storm god involved (as Ramman) with the Deluge; also known as Ramman/Rammon
7. Ashima 2 Kings 17:30 Samaritan Moon goddess
8. Nergal 2 Kings 17:30 Cuth/Assyrian/Babylonian war and underworld god, also called Meshlamthea
9. Succoth-Benoth 2 Kings 17:30 Babylonian fertility goddess ("She Who Produces Seed"), also known as Zarpanitu/Zerpanitum
10. Adrammelech & Anammelech 2 Kings 17:31 Sepharvite gods
11. Nibhaz & Tartak 2 Kings 17:31 Avite gods
12. Nisroch 2 Kings 19:37 Assyrian god
13. Baal/Baalim 1 Kings 18:18, 19 etc Canaanite god ("lord") of fertility, vegetation and storms, pl. a collective of the different aspects of Baal. (Baal-berith, Judges 8:33 A regional variation/aspect of Baal)
14. Bel & Nebo Isaiah 46:01 Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian/Syrian gods. Bel = “lord”. Nebo was a god of wisdom and writing, also called Nabu
15. Tammuz Ezekial 8:14 Assyrian/Babylonian God


Got that list from.....

http://darbygray.blogspot.com/2008/11/old-testament-idols.html

Nineveh? Giant fish?

foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD , and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." The Sovereign LORD declares-he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered." (Isaiah 56:6-8).

 

[Inspector Javert]

Nineveh? Giant fish?

foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD , and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant-these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations." The Sovereign LORD declares-he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered." (Isaiah 56:6-8).

Correct.....
Not only that...but that is SPECIFICALLY the passage Jesus referenced when he chased out the money-changers in the Temple....They were insisting that Temple sacrifices be purchased ONLY with the Hebrew Shekel instead of a valuable currency, (it was the equivalent of offering a Peso for 1 $U.S Dollar) and they were rendering sacrificing un-affordable and economically impossible....

It wasn't mere gross-profiteering that infuriated him...it was that the money-changers were PREVENTING GENTILES from going to the temple and worshipping God...

Therefore:
Anyone who says some uninformed, unscriptural un-godliness like this:

Originally Posted by Rippon
The Lord revealed Himself to the nation of Israel alone in the Old Testament. He let the other nations alone. They went their own way. No one did any seeking of God.

And then, another Biblical illiterate who fails to comprehend what so INFURIATED Jesus about the money changers...... and sycophants it like this:

Exactly!! :thumbsup:

The rest were left to worship:

Old Testament idols

Hasn't a clue what the Scriptures teach, and wouldn't know the heart and mind of God if they tried....

SNIP
That passage ALONE disproves UTTERLY the God-dishonoring assertion that God simply "left" or "ignored" or passed-by those gentiles in the Old Testament....It is so PLAINLY obvious that God wanted ALL people saved. That included all Jews and all Gentiles....
And our Calvinist friends are so drunk on their Systematic Theology, they wouldn't bother to cross-reference Jesus Christ himself when he quotes the Old Testament....and they haven't the faintest notion of how to research what was going on.

Un-believable.

 

[Inspector Javert]

I recall a story about Jonah that would refute this notion.

He ignored that book of the Bible....his System has no reference from which to explain it, so he denies it exists altogether.

 

[Winman]

You still beieve sinners by their own accord will seek after the Lord though, correct?

How could any sinner seek the true God and Jesus Christ if God did not first reveal himself and his Son to that sinner? Were you born knowing about the true God and the gospel?

Do you still believe people get "zapped" with this knowledge?

Or did you learn by hearing the preaching of the word of God?

 

[Rippon]

The Lord revealed Himself to the nation of Israel alone in the Old Testament. He let the other nations alone. They went their own way. No one did any seeking of God.

Shockingly the above was called "Uninformed,unscriptural ungodliness" by someone who claims to preach on occasion! His regretful remarks are an unreasonable and underprivileged understanding of the Word of God.

Psalm 147:19,20 : He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the Lord.

Acts 14:16 : In the past, he let all nations go their own way.

 

[convicted1]

Not all Israel is Israel. Correct in speaking about Jonah and the Ninevahites. God quickens whosoever He will. He hardens whosoever He will.

 

[Rippon]

A Big Dose Of Sarcasm ( Forgive Me Lord)

God quickens whosoever He will. He hardens whosoever He will.

You mean God has that right? He gets to choose instead of people? He arrogates that kind of authority to Himself and not man? Who does He think He is...God?!

Another thing. Isn't He obligated to show mercy to all? Isn't He fair-minded enough to give everyone a chance?

How dare He harden anyone. That doesn't sound right. God is love. He can't harden anyone...can He? I don't know if I should trust Him with that kind of power. You make Him out to be the Sovereign Master of the Universe or something.

 

[convicted1]

I've read, "the same sun that melts snow, hardens clay."

 

[Yeshua1]

How could any sinner seek the true God and Jesus Christ if God did not first reveal himself and his Son to that sinner? Were you born knowing about the true God and the gospel?

Do you still believe people get "zapped" with this knowledge?

Or did you learn by hearing the preaching of the word of God?

Are you actually agreeing with the scriptures now?

That a sinner cannot come to Christ in order to get saved unless the Holy Spirit Himself enables him to do such?

 

[Yeshua1]

He ignored that book of the Bible....his System has no reference from which to explain it, so he denies it exists altogether.

God sought them, not them seeking God though. correct?

And God was the One to make the sinners there repent and come to belief in him at the preaching of the prophet, correct?

Sounds like Rippon had it all right!

 

[webdog]

Not all Israel is Israel. Correct in speaking about Jonah and the Ninevahites. God quickens whosoever He will. He hardens whosoever He will.

Of course there is no scripture showing this being done in a Calvinist model. He doesn't nilly willy employ a cosmic eeny meeny miney moe.

 

[webdog]

You mean God has that right? He gets to choose instead of people? He arrogates that kind of authority to Himself and not man? Who does He think He is...God?!

Another thing. Isn't He obligated to show mercy to all? Isn't He fair-minded enough to give everyone a chance?

How dare He harden anyone. That doesn't sound right. God is love. He can't harden anyone...can He? I don't know if I should trust Him with that kind of power. You make Him out to be the Sovereign Master of the Universe or something.

The passage in Isaiah I provided refutes this.

 

[Rippon]

The passage in Isaiah I provided refutes this.

Just a mere dose of common sense would refute it.

 

[Yeshua1]

The passage in Isaiah I provided refutes this.

God owes no sinner anything, so that even if a sinner only gets saved by the Cross, doesn't that make God great, and worthy to be praised?

 

[Winman]

Are you actually agreeing with the scriptures now?

That a sinner cannot come to Christ in order to get saved unless the Holy Spirit Himself enables him to do such?

Do you ever actually read what people say? Or do you just constantly put words in other people's mouths they never said? A very dishonest form of debate if you ask me, you should be ashamed, but you never are.

From day one I have said that no man is born knowing of the true God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you know of God and Jesus, it is because God through his Holy Spirit inspired men to write down his very words. The word of God is a supernatural work directly from the Father. I have ALWAYS said this, but you are too busy misrepresenting folks. Maybe you should pay attention once in awhile, then you wouldn't need to ask the same questions over, and over, and over again as you constantly do.

When you hear the word of God, you are hearing God's Holy Spirit inspired words. His word is quick and alive, and able to pierce to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That said, I do not believe God "zaps" you to believe, he TEACHES you to believe. It is knowledge that enables you to believe in Jesus. As Jesus said, every man that is TAUGHT of God comes to him, those men who have HEARD and LEARNED come to him.

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

See, God doesn't "zap" you to believe, he makes you "wise" to believe. He gives you knowledge.

No where do the scriptures say a man must be regenerated or quickened or any other such term to come to him. They must simply take heed to God's word and LEARN from it to believe.

Now, do you still believe a man has to be zapped to believe? Show where the Bible says that. I am betting you can't do it.

 

[webdog]

God owes no sinner anything, so that even if a sinner only gets saved by the Cross, doesn't that make God great, and worthy to be praised?

Never said He did...

 

[convicted1]

Of course there is no scripture showing this being done in a Calvinist model. He doesn't nilly willy employ a cosmic eeny meeny miney moe.

Romans 9:14-21 (YLT)


"What, then, shall we say? unrighteousness [is] with God? let it not be! for to Moses He saith, `I will do kindness to whom I do kindness, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion;' so, then -- not of him who is willing, nor of him who is running, but of God who is doing kindness: for the Writing saith to Pharaoh -- `For this very thing I did raise thee up, that I might shew in thee My power, and that My name might be declared in all the land;' so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden. Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?' nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form [it], Why me didst thou make thus? hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?"


Pharoah was one who God used to fulfill His purpose in bringing His people out of bondage. He raised him up for that very purpose....

 

[convicted1]

Do you ever actually read what people say? Or do you just constantly put words in other people's mouths they never said? A very dishonest form of debate if you ask me, you should be ashamed, but you never are.

From day one I have said that no man is born knowing of the true God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you know of God and Jesus, it is because God through his Holy Spirit inspired men to write down his very words. The word of God is a supernatural work directly from the Father. I have ALWAYS said this, but you are too busy misrepresenting folks. Maybe you should pay attention once in awhile, then you wouldn't need to ask the same questions over, and over, and over again as you constantly do.

When you hear the word of God, you are hearing God's Holy Spirit inspired words. His word is quick and alive, and able to pierce to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That said, I do not believe God "zaps" you to believe, he TEACHES you to believe. It is knowledge that enables you to believe in Jesus. As Jesus said, every man that is TAUGHT of God comes to him, those men who have HEARD and LEARNED come to him.

2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

See, God doesn't "zap" you to believe, he makes you "wise" to believe. He gives you knowledge.

No where do the scriptures say a man must be regenerated or quickened or any other such term to come to him. They must simply take heed to God's word and LEARN from it to believe.

Now, do you still believe a man has to be zapped to believe? Show where the Bible says that. I am betting you can't do it.

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but -- to proclaim good news; not in wisdom of discourse, that the cross of the Christ may not be made of none effect; for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, for it hath been written, `I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will bring to nought;' where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world? for, seeing in the wisdom of God the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing. [1 Cor. 1:17-21 (YLT)]


Then there's Romans 1:16 and Ephesians 1:13. If all it took was to hear the gospel then the deaf would be hopeless and helpless. If all it took was to hear the gospel, then those who heard it would automatically be saved. Those who hear it w/o the Spirit working within them, it's just "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..." It takes an inner working of the Spirit to bring them to Christ.

 

[Winman]

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but -- to proclaim good news; not in wisdom of discourse, that the cross of the Christ may not be made of none effect; for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, for it hath been written, `I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the intelligence of the intelligent I will bring to nought;' where [is] the wise? where the scribe? where a disputer of this age? did not God make foolish the wisdom of this world? for, seeing in the wisdom of God the world through the wisdom knew not God, it did please God through the foolishness of the preaching to save those believing. [1 Cor. 1:17-21 (YLT)]


Then there's Romans 1:16 and Ephesians 1:13. If all it took was to hear the gospel then the deaf would be hopeless and helpless. If all it took was to hear the gospel, then those who heard it would automatically be saved. Those who hear it w/o the Spirit working within them, it's just "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..." It takes an inner working of the Spirit to bring them to Christ.

You are just being silly now. It is not audible sound that regenerates a person, but Jesus Christ himself. The scriptures simply teach a man that if he will place his trust in Jesus, that Jesus will save that man, Jesus will regenerate that man, Jesus will forgive our sins and send his Spirit to dwell in that man.

God does not require anything from us we cannot do. We are only expected to believe, to come to Jesus in our heart trusting and relying on him alone. This is to simply cast one's self on Jesus in utter dependence. If we do this (which is actually a ceasing of all work or effort to save ourselves), Jesus will do the supernatural work we cannot do. He will save us, he will wash us clean, he will come and dwell in us.

Your doctrine has done a great job of convincing you that you cannot be saved. :thumbsup:

 

[convicted1]

You are just being silly now. It is not audible sound that regenerates a person, but Jesus Christ himself. The scriptures simply teach a man that if he will place his trust in Jesus, that Jesus will save that man, Jesus will regenerate that man, Jesus will forgive our sins and send his Spirit to dwell in that man.

God does not require anything from us we cannot do. We are only expected to believe, to come to Jesus in our heart trusting and relying on him alone. This is to simply cast one's self on Jesus in utter dependence. If we do this (which is actually a ceasing of all work or effort to save ourselves), Jesus will do the supernatural work we cannot do. He will save us, he will wash us clean, he will come and dwell in us.

Your doctrine has done a great job of convincing you that you cannot be saved. :thumbsup:

Well, well, well, if it's not Cap'n Obstinate. Have you ever conceded on point since you've joined? If not, then you obviously have all the answer. Hey fellas, we need to toss our bibles outta the window and listen to the Vicar of Baptistboard.

Again, you stated the gospel has to be heard. Your words, I didn't put them in your post, you did. If they have to hear the gospel preached, then every deaf person has zero chance at salvation. Quite sad. I agree that they need the gospel, but the gospel has to have the Spirit moving in that lost person, something deeper than the auduble hearing. It effectually draws people when the Spirit is working in a lost sinner.


You're right about faith doing what it does, it's the source that has you grotestquely(sp?) in error. Faith is the gift of God, as He deals it to man(Romans 12:3) and He is the Author and Finisher of our faith(Hebrews 12:2).