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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by convicted1, Oct 25, 2014.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    How so? Eve had no sin nature yet chose sin. It simply shows that man has a real choice in the matter between two options and that we are not instinctual beings as compatibalism makes man.
     
    #21 webdog, Oct 27, 2014
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Adam & Eve were made good, not perfect. They were made corruptable, yet not corrupted. They rebelled, we reaped the benefits...
     
    #22 convicted1, Oct 27, 2014
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They were not as Goid himself is, as perfect moral agents, still had the potential to have chosen to sin...

    We are sinners by BOTH birth and our choosing to keep on sinning..
     
    #23 Yeshua1, Oct 27, 2014
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Thats like saying I'm a drunk by both being born to alcoholic parents and by drinking too much. Completely illogical.

    We are sinners by sinning.
     
    #24 webdog, Oct 27, 2014
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    If you mean the curse, I agree. If you mean we are now instinctual beings that can only choose an option between one thing and one thing (a non choice by definition), completely disagree.
     
    #25 webdog, Oct 27, 2014
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This is the same with everyone. We are born sinless and end up giving in to temptation. Just as Adam and Eve were. Not corrupt ,but Corruptible.
    MB
     
    #26 MB, Oct 27, 2014
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The wages of sin is death. How can someone sinless die? Even Jesus had to become sin to die. When He partook of that bitter cup, He took sin upon Himself.
     
    #27 convicted1, Oct 27, 2014
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    You keep talking about the curse. You agree that the curse was passed down. What brought the curse? Adam's sin. Now, how can we get the curse, which was ushered in via Adam's sin, and yet, we didn't get the sin?
     
    #28 convicted1, Oct 27, 2014
  9. Inspector Javert

    Inspector Javert Active Member

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    The same way goldfish do.
     
    #29 Inspector Javert, Oct 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Boom! :laugh:

    I was going to say the same way Christ was affected by the curse without gaining Adam's guilt.
     
    #30 webdog, Oct 28, 2014
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    See the goldfish comment. How many sins have they committed?
     
    #31 webdog, Oct 28, 2014
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Guys, goldfish weren't made in imago dei as Adam was. That's a non sequitor....
     
    #32 convicted1, Oct 28, 2014
  13. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Webdog, Christ was born of the flesh, yet His Father wasn't Joseph. He had an immaculate birth. We didn't....major difference...
     
    #33 convicted1, Oct 28, 2014
  14. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Now, let's go back to the OP....

    --Does God open sinners' heart or do they choose to allow Him to?

    --Does God open sinners' blinded eyes or do they choose to allow Him to?

    --Does God open sinners' ears or do they choose to allow Him to?

    That is why regeneration prior to conversion is essential, imo. We had no choice when God started the work in opening our eyes to see our truly sinful state, our ears to hear what the word of God was truly saying to us, and our hearts to receive the engrafted word, which is able to save our souls.

    James 1:21 wherefore having put aside all filthiness and superabundance of evil, in meekness be receiving the engrafted word, that is able to save your souls;

    Phpps 2:13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    John 6:29Jesus answered and said to them, `This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'
     
    #34 convicted1, Oct 28, 2014
  15. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    It would seem that the author of the OP is trying to imply that because people choose to sin that they do it because they are completely depraved by nature.

    This is illogical because we know that Adam and Eve had no sin nature yet they both sinned, This shows that man does not need a depraved sin nature to choose to sin.

    Men sin because they choose to, just like Adam and Eve, the pride of life, and the lust of the flesh, along with the temptations of Satan causes men to sin.
     
    #35 Jordan Kurecki, Oct 28, 2014
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No, but it shows that the curse can affect all creation without all creation sharing Adam's guilt. You are denying Christ's humanity due solely to him not having an earthly father. That is false. He is 100% human or He is not. He didn't "become sin", that is hyperbole for Him taking on the sacrifice of the sin of the entire world on his shoulders.
    Your questions in the OP have been answered. You are just looking for an answer that you like now.
     
    #36 webdog, Oct 28, 2014
  17. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Well-Known Member

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    If man is born without the sin nature then it stands to reason someone other than Christ has lived a long life and died without sinning. Years ago I was listening to a free will Baptist preacher in the pulpit and he admitted he had sinned since being saved, but of course it was some minor infraction. He went on and said his wife had told him she had never sinned not once since she had been saved fifteen years. :saint:
     
    #37 salzer mtn, Oct 28, 2014
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I don't think animals would have lived forever if Adam had never sinned. The had no access to the Tree of Life. So the goldfish comment has no merit, imo.


    This makes more than once you've lied on here saying this about me. This needs stopped, NOW!!! I have never denied He came in the flesh. Joseph was His step-father, unless you believe Mary wasn't a virgin before she was impregnated. Joseph had never slept with her until after Christ was born and her purification.
    1 Cor. 5:21

    For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(KJV)

    Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.(ASV)


    God caused the one who didn’t know sin to be sin for our sake so that through him we could become the righteousness of God.(CEB)

    Christ had no sin, but God made him become sin so that in Christ we could be right with God.(ERV)


    For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.(ESV)
    Riiiiight!!!
     
    #38 convicted1, Oct 28, 2014
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Who here has said this?
     
    #39 webdog, Oct 28, 2014
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It matters not what we "think". What does the Bible say? "...death through sin".




    What difference does it make who Joseph was? Why even bring that up? the virgin birth was meant to be a SIGN, not doctrine.


    That's figurative language. Which sin did He become?
     
    #40 webdog, Oct 28, 2014
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