Featured Temporal Salvation

If you are looking to be discipled by the BB then you will be sorely disappointed. The setting on a forum is just not feasible for that. As far as the group of men that you have been having conversations with I believe it is good that you have that. However, I suggest that you expand your influence beyond that group. You can do this by way of books, commentaries, your own Bible, preaching by others that can readily be found all over the internet and television.

Now I am not understanding what it is that you "don't see".

 

EWF, I wasn't inquiring when the PBs arose, but when some of them began teaching this time/eternal innovation.

 

Well, I did that in my first post. It is in direct conflict with scripture in John 1:12. Those who become the Sons of God do so only after belief. The phrases "Sons of God" and "children of God" are synonymous.

See the underlying issue here is what is man's responsibility in salvation. Does God require man to respond to the gospel in belief in order to be saved? Can God reach into a man's heart and enable him to be able to respond to the gospel or reject it. Does God have the ability to do that?


Or, is God limited by man's inability? Is it impossible for God to give man the ability to respond or reject the gospel?

I believe God has the power, authority, and ability to reach into a man's heart and allow him to respond or not to respond. The God I believe in is just that big and powerful.


Now if God opens man's heart to be able to respond to him does man then get some or all of the credit for his salvation? Absolutely not. That does not require that man get any of the credit.

And that is really the crux of the matter between cals and others. It is all about assigning credit for salvation.

I believe that regardless of how much man responds to the gospel He who has the power and authority to give salvation gets all the credit.

 

Read Crowley's 'The Primitive or Old School Baptists':

https://books.google.com/books?id=p...sly+in+several+places,+and+it+quickly+spread"

 

And I can whole heartedly agree with that. I just do not believe God leaves anyone alone, at least not initially.

 

Yes, if God never moved in a person's heart to draw them to salvation, then of course they will go to Hell. But from my study of the scripture, and from the conviction I've felt from the Spirit, I don't see God leaving anyone alone. In fact, Romans 1 claims that God is evident in nature, therefore arguably observable by all, but the sinfulness of man has lead us away from Him.

There are all sorts of verses in which we read about "whosoever will," and about how God loved the world so much that He sent Christ for our salvation. Of course, believers in elect-only theology (trying to avoid certain terminology) will tell us that when the Bible says "the world," it actually means "the elect." When it says "whosoever will," it actually means "whosoever of the elect will."

The idea that people are not able to say "no" to the Lord isn't, in my opinion, scriptural. The Holy Spirit is just as much "the Lord" as Jesus, correct? Yet the Bible tells us to "quench not the Spirit." Why would we be told to not quench the Spirit if it were impossible for us to from the outset?

 

It's an "interesting" word because it is quite appropos. So-called 'Time Salvation' is a novel concept unheard of in historic Christian theology. No Puritan or Reformer ever taught it. Your Calvinistic heroes never preached upon it. It is an aberration from the Faith once delivered. Conditional time salvation is not found in Holy Writ.

 

I can't access Youtube, but Don Fortner is no advocate of this time salvation business.

 

I'm not sure, EWF, if we can discuss a topic that some have labeled "two aspects of a single salvation" without veering into the C & A argument. The notion that man has no input in his salvation is, from what I've noticed around here, the heart of the C & A argument.

As to the other question you posed me: Have you ever been sitting in church and feel the impetus to get up and do something, like give a testimony, or simply go and hug someone and offer them encouragement, but then not gotten up and done it? Maybe you just sat there trying to sort out if you were actually supposed to do that, or if you just thought you were? Whatever the reason, if the Lord tells you to do something, and you squash it down, have you not "quenched the Spirit?"

 

Have you ever seen the pictures that have a hidden picture within the greater picture, It's usually accompanied by a phrase like, "When you see It you'll be amazed that you couldn't see it soon as you looked" (clean version).

That's the way the Doctrine of Actual Atonement (probably the biggie from the DoG that you struggle with)is JonC, When (if) God opens your eyes to it you will be so amazed that you didn't see it from the beginning. It's so clear and so weaved throughout the entire Word it's amazing.

 

I am Primitive Baptist, out of a SBC (First Baptist) Church. I was evangelistic then, I am evangelistic Now.

Does that mean we believe in the "Modern" "gimmicks" used to get man to "walk the aisle to the Alter"or "hands going up all over the room" or "repeat these words after me....If you did this PTL your a child of God now"? Nope

Does it mean that we tell others the complete Gospel and trust Jehovah to be powerful enough to "convert" (temporal salvation) His? Yep