Featured Sin Essential to God's Purpose in Christ !

First, "TULIP" the acronym is often wildly misunderstood because people argue against a caricature, not an accurate representation.

Secondly, it is very possible that you are misinterpreting the text and that the Calvinists are more scripturally accurate than you and your camp.

The Archangel

 

The above statement is blasphemous and evil in its intent. Consider what Scripture tells how God views evil:

Genesis 6:5-7
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So according to the op God is the cause of evil in man yet the above Scripture tells us that God repented He had made man. And what did God do. He destroyed all mankind in the Flood. Yet He spared one family! WHY?

Genesis 6:8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

***************************************

Then the op tells us:

"sbm" states of Job "He actually said God was the doer of the evil !". Again a statement that is a lie and I believe is made with evil intent. Job is simply experience tribulation that the world brings upon the Saints of God.

Jesus Christ tells us:

John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

The story of Job opens as follows:

Job 1:1. There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.[NKJV]

If God is the author of evil, as "smb" blasphemously claims, then why would one that feared God shun evil?

*************************************************

What does Scripture tell us about the nature of God?

Isaiah 6:1-3
1.In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Psalms 33:5. He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Psalms 116:5 Gracious is the LORD, and righteous; yea, our God is merciful.

Psalms 119:137. Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments.

Malachi 3:6. For I am the LORD, I change not;

******************************************

In the first Chapter of the Bible we are told:

Genesis 1:31. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Later we are told:

Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

Yet "sbm" denying all that Scripture teaches, and I believe with evil intent, would have us believe that God created man as evil for what "sbm" calls His Glory! Blasphemous!

Such idea is the evil that results when man attempts to go beyond what God has revealed in Scripture. Rather than allow God and Scripture speak to them they attempt to speak to God and corrupt Scripture. The God of "sbm" is more akin to the pagan idols of the middle east or the Aztecs of Mexico than the God of Scripture.

 

While it's obvious that God cannot be the author of evil, some of the things said about Job here are a bit off...

First: "Evil" can also be translated as calamity.

Second: Who is credited with the action against Job?

It isn't Satan; it's God. It is important to note the following:

Job says: "...The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Who is it that took Job's family and things? It was, ultimately, God.

Notice, though that the text says this about Job immediately following the prior quote: "In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong."

So, for Job to attribute this action neither incurs sin nor charges God with wrong.

The conclusion, then, is that God is ultimately responsible for the "evil" or "calamity" that happens to Job, but the agent of "evil" or "calamity" here is Satan.

The text speaks to--and very highly of--the sovereignty of God.

The Archangel

 

Of course it is possible, just as it is possible that Calvinist are misrepresenting the text. This is what we agreed upon, correct?

 

No. "Misinterpreting" and "Misrepresenting" the text are two, separate things.

Misinterpreting is due to being mistaken; misrepresenting is due to being intentional...

Furthermore, all of us have but one goal when it comes to the text of Scripture: To uncover the meaning. Peter is quite clear (2 Peter 1:20) that there is one meaning. Surely, there may be many applications of the text, but there is only one, correct interpretation.

The Archangel

 

Ok, I misspoke, "misinterpreting" then.

But let's look at misrepresenting for a moment since it has come up. When a person is having a debate over say why the Holy Spirit does not teach every Christian to believe TULIP, and a poster says it is because of Matt 13 and John 10, is that just a misinterpretation or is that a blatant misrepresentation of Scripture? Is it really possible to be that "mistaken"? Do you think this poster doesn't really understand he is abusing the passage, i.e. "misrepresenting"?

 

The issue is intent.

Abusing a passage is often done in ignorance. Misrepresentation of a passage requires malice of forethought.

There's a type of culpability with each, but ignorance to varying degrees is often quite understandable.

Think about this: If the text states one thing and you happen not to like it and so you do everything in your thinking and teaching, etc. to convince others against a certain position--after being shown that the text cannot mean what you think it means--wouldn't that be another example of misrepresentation?

The Archangel

 

But do you really think Icon is posting this out of ignorance? The only alternative then is malice of forethought.

If it would, then you and I, and all, are guilty of misrepresentation. For you will say "I showed you", and I will say "I showed you".

 

You're still missing the point. Misrepresentation is done knowingly and with malice.

It is possible to be mistaken and be sincere without knowing or believing that you're wrong and demonstrating no malice in your ignorance.

Politicians demonstrate "Misrepresentation" all the time by telling only half of the facts by deliberately telling only the things that support their position, essentially telling half-truths.

The Archangel

 

No brother, I got the point several post ago. You're either missing the point about brother Icon's use of scripture against non-Cals or you are ignoring it. Anyways, that's another thread, need to get out of this one, we are off topic.

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

Whodunit?

And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Judah. 2 Sam 24:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 1 Chron 21:1

 

What a disgusting perversion of God and His word this is. This is a prime example of the evils of hyper calvinism.

 

Whodunit?

4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
6 Seeing it is God, that said, Light shall shine out of darkness, who shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4

 

I am not a student of hyper calvinism but I am not sure you can call it hyper calvinism. It seems to be an invention of the one who posted it!

 

It might be an invention of the one who posted it; but kyredneck is doing his best to support/defend it....

 

God through ehe Prophet Isaiah tells us:

Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

And then through the Apostle Paul:

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

I believe in the Sovereignty of God. If God is not Sovereign He is not God. However, I believe that some folks on this BB in discussing that Sovereignty or the Decrees of God have an irresistible tendency to go far beyond what Scripture reveals and certainly beyond understanding! Let God be God, if we could understand Him He would not be God. He graciously reveals to us what we need to know!

 

I disagree with the "redneck" on occasion but I don't believe he would support "sbm's" contention that:

Not unless he says so!

 

Are you saying God is ultimately responsible in that he was the agent of cause or because of His Sovereignty?