Featured The 5 Points that lead me out of Calvinism

Your response to it is evasive to the Truth of the verses ! Those in a lost state have the Gospel permanently hid from them ! I even explained it to you and you ignored it !

 

One more quick question for SavedByMercy -.... where are all of the other Calvinists?

 

Was Christ 100 % successful in seeking and saving that which was lost ? Yes or No !

 

But the text does not say "our gospel is hidden from all the lost" as your extreme inference practice renders it.

The salient point is missed - because both Calvinists and Arminians admit that there are indeed lost people that never accept the Gospel.

The unproven -- merely-assumed argument that you need to prove is that you can rightly bend that text to say "the gospel is hidden from all the lost" it is a claim you make - but have no text for it.

You merely "assume the salient point" of your own argument that is made only by extreme inference at that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The text says that the Gospel is hid from them that are lost ! Also it's hidden from them permanently !

 

I did give you yes or no here - but you are ignoring the post possibly because it includes the texts Calvinism needs to avoid.

 

[quote name="BobRyan" post=2180529]One more quick question for SavedByMercy -.... where are all of the other Calvinists?[/QUOTE]<br />
Was Christ 100 % successful in seeking and saving that which was lost ? Yes or No !<br/>

 

1. It does not say that it is hidden from all of the lost - you add that part.

2. It does not say that those who refuse the Gospel today - will refuse it tomorrow because at Pentecost we have a perfect example of those who rejected the Gospel yesterday - accepting it today.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Next question for you - since you seem determined to have the following Question and Answer sequence played over and over again.

How exactly does the sequence below help Calvinism?? You keep asking for it to be repeated - I see how it helps the Arminian POV to do that - but how does it help Calvinism?

 

One step at a time then.
Here is what Jesus said:
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Was he lying? How do you account for the words of Christ?

 

SBM must have me on ignore....

 

Question - is SBM the only Calvinist on this thread?

Why is that??

 

It does say that the Gospel is hid from THEM THAT ARE LOST ! CAN'T YOU READ !

 

I already stated something on Lk 19:10 so obviously you don't pay attention ! Do you believe that Christ was 100 % successful in accomplishing the Two objectives in that verse ? Yes or No ! Do you know what they are ?

 

I can see that you repeat yourself while ignoring the point raised - which is that you are not making any effort to defend the salient point in your own argument.

Try it.

Because I CAN prove the salient point in my argument for the Arminian side that the Gospel is sent to the lost -- trying to reach those who are not saved, not reconciled, not sanctified.

Meanwhile Paul says the gospel is going to the unsaved in Romans 11 " 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them."

By contrast the God of the Bible "came to seek an save the lost". Luke 19:10, Matt 18:11


The very sequence you object to is found there - "light shining out of darkness" and those who are lost being converted in the very sequence identified by Paul - the same author -- writing to the Romans.

Romans 10
“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The very sequence Calvinism forbids - the Bible affirms! The gospel goes to the lost - those who are not saved, and not at all righteous -- and then -
"with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Without all the "extreme inference" injected into 2Cor 4 - this all works just fine.


That is how the "unreconciled" become saved as they respond to God's call where he "begs them to be reconciled to God" 2Cor 5

As Christ stands on the outside of the christless-lost "I STAND and KNOCK - IF anyone hears My voice AND OPENS the door I will come in" Rev 3

2 Peter 3 where we find that God is "not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance" How does He take action to solve that problem according to Peter? is it by "mind ZAPping"??? No it is by the very "Arminian" solution of "delaying" allowing time for "Gospel appeal" to go forward -- a very Arminian process.

 

The Gospel is hid from them that are lost , permanently hid 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

 

Okay, I'd like to try again:

Then you wrote:

You're contradicting yourself. You can't say that the lost will not hear the gospel; then reference the lost that were saved. You're making no sense.

 

People, the Ignore feature is a wonderful tool.

 

I haven't been reading all the posts SBM, primarily just the ones between you and me.
Christ came into the world, as he stated, "to seek and to save the lost," whomever they would be. Many rejected him. Some received him.

In general terms John records what happened:
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
--His own, that is the nations of Israel, rejected him. They crucified him instead.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
--But those who received him, were those that believed on his name and they were the ones that became the sons of God.
Salvation is a cooperative effort. Within the sovereignty of God, He allows the agency of faith as a necessary part of salvation. In fact without faith it is impossible to be saved. At the same time both Christ and Paul make it clear that faith is not a work. In fact faith and works oppose each other. Therefore salvation remains a gift from God, and totally from God, totally of God.
But it must be received by faith from God.

 

The gospel is not hid from them that are lost. You butcher that verse.
You have not quoted the entirety of that verse. You take it out of context.

It says "the gospel is hid from them that are lost," as much as Psalm 14:1 says "There is no God."
That is how well you are quoting this scripture.