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Featured The two witnesses

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jan 26, 2015.

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  1. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Jesus the Revelator who instructed John to write Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    According to your statement above is that what Jesus showed John was incorrect information and which says "satan is bound cast into the bottom list pit until the 1000 years should be fulfilled" was John giving false information.
     
  2. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    "Harpazo" the word used for the church being caught up has a meaning to be snatched away in 1 Tehssalonins 4. That is why that specific meaning is used there "caught up" or "snatched away." Now there will be some like "Lots wife" who will be snatched away by force, because they aren't ready to go, either having their minds on things of the world or saying it isn't time for Him to come.

    Lot's wife a believer in Sodom and Gomorrah had to be forced to leave, she looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt. While that won't happen those who are taken by force in the snatching way will receive mostly wood, hay and straw at the "Bema" seat judgment.

    BTW they were removed before the judgment began, just a a Pre-Tribulational raptue shows.
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I presented you appropriate Scripture. As an act of courtesy I present it again. If you are unable to understand the Scripture that is your problem. Please don't make false statements about what I believe. You did that earlier as I pointed out in post 51!

    Matthew 12:24-30
    24. But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    25. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26. And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27. And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
    30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.


    In the above passage Jesus Christ is saying that He bound the strong man, Satan. If you choose to question the words of Jesus Christ feel free to do so.
     
    #63 OldRegular, Feb 27, 2015
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  4. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at this question, while the bible doesn't say that these weeks mean years, if it is taken as literal weeks we can look at how how it was to be fulfilled.

    First look at Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    It would be fulfilled with the Messiah coming and being cut off, put to death. Let's look at it as weeks, 69 weeks after after the decree to restore and to build Jerusalem until the coming of the Messiah.
    That decree occurred sometime around 456 or so before the birth of Christ. So 69 weeks, that would mean that taken as a literal week the Messiah would have about 453 or 455 years before the birth of Jesus. Therefore if we take this as literal weeks then Jesus would not be the Messiah. However, if we take the 70 weeks to mean 7 years for each week Jesus would have come 483 years after the decree was issued. We don't need to be told that weeks mean years, Jesus' being cut off as Messiah proves them to be.

    If these were literal weeks then we need to be looking for a different Savior, a Different Messiah. That being so we would need to have seen the abomination of desolation set up in that same time and yet as seen in

    Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

    Jesus said it hadn't occured but it would in the future. If you take the Prophecy of Daniel and use 7 years from the crucifixion that would not be 70 A.D. that would have been around 40 A.D. There must be a wedge driven in time, a wedge God didn't reveal to the Prophets, but knew beforehand He would do it. Thus we have the time in which we live and there is still seven years or the last week of Daniel's seventieth to be concluded. The book of Revelation reveals this in Chapters 6 - 19. One week is given by the Lord in confirming His covenant with Israel.

    81 A.D. Domitian had become emperor, he was the emperor who exiled John to the Isle of Patmos. Early church historians say Domitian was the emperor who exiled John. Therefore the writer of Revelation wrote the book between 81 to 96 A.D. that would be after the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and his transcription of Jesus Revelation of yet future events.

    Even men like Matthew Henry hold to the 95-96 A.D. writing of the book.

    "The testimony of the Church Fathers is that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written by John near the end of the reign of Domitian in AD 96. According to them, John was banished by Domitian to the lonely Isle of Patmos, a desolate Greek island in the Aegean Sea only 11 square miles in area. Victorinus, in his Commentary on the Apocolypse of the Blessed John, recorded that John labored in the mines of Patmos.

    Although there are many indirect references to John being banished to Patmos under Domitian in the Church Fathers, there are also direct references to John’s banishment under Domitian. The earliest of these is that of Irenaeus (c. 130-202). He was bishop of Lyons in Gaul. In Against Heresies (A.D. 180-199), Book V, Chapter 30, we read:

    We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign.

    The church historian Eusebius Pamphili was born about 260 and died before 341. Bishop of Cæsarea in Palestine, he is known as the "Father of Church History." Eusebius confirms the authenticity of the testimony of Irenaeus. In chapter 18, Book 3 of his Church History, we read:

    "It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. Irenaeus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him: a "If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian."

    So the book of Revelation would have been written after 70 A.D. according to these two well known early Christian writers. Therefore, Christ 1000 year reign had not occurred in the second or 4th century. So where do you find early church historians who back up your teaching of the 70 A.D. Kingdom of Christ. That they were looking for a literal anti-christ yet to come and the 1000 year reign of Christ.
     
  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    After Jesus said this we see this verses "Luke 22:3
    Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve."
    John 13:27
    And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

    If He had bound him for that time how could satan enter Judas at a later date?
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Satan is a spiritual being. Has it ever occurred to you that you do not understand what Scripture means when it says Satan is bound? Satan is not destroyed until he is cast into the Lake of Fire.
     
  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I understand perfectly. First can do nothing unless God gives him permission. As with Job and Peter. With Job he was allowed to test him. With Peter he was allowed to sift him. With Judas he was allowed to enter into him. In Revelation 20 we are told an angel binds him in chains and seals him into the Bottomless pit until the 1000 year Kingdom is complete and loosed for a little season.

    He is bound in chains for the Kingdom, that is made clear in Revelation. Christ can bind his power anytime he wants, but for the 1000 year Kingdom we are told he is not loosed for the entire 1000 year period.

    Very simple it is not a 2000 year period. God as the three in one God has always had and always will have the power to override satan.

    Revelation 20 says he is bound by an Angel with chains and sealed in the bottomless pit.
    What do you not understand about that scripture?
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Try reading exactly what Revelation 20:1-3 states:

    Revelation 20:1-3
    1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


    Look especially at the enlarged words!

    I also understand that the doctrine of the pre-trib-snatching-away-of-the Church invented out of whole cloth by John Nelson Darby and popularized in this country by Cyrus Scofield's References is false doctrine. The Church is not a parenthesis, an interruption, in God's program for apostate Israel. Jesus Christ shed his blood on a Roman Cross for the Church.

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  9. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    I see you are getting close, for the 1000 years, the period of Christ reign on Earth, satan will Not Deceive the Nations, bound in chains locked in the bottomless pit. What nations, the nations of the earth as Christ rules and reigns from the Throne of David as the seed of Jesse on the literal earth.

    We see verse 4 that you skipped,

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Where will He be reigning, Isaiah 9 tells us verses

    5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

    His throne transitions after the 1000 years to New Jerusalem.

    Very simple a literal Kingdom on earth with satan bound. His power and influence upon mankind and creation is completely removed. His presence and influence will not be seen on earth again for 1000 years. Bound not able to deceive mankind, bound not even having the company of even his demon angels.

    The thrones seen, we have fulfillment of,

    1st Corinthians 6: verse 2 & 3, 2 “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” As well as 2nd Timothy 2: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    Even we will reign with Him upon the earth, but so too will the Tribulation saints many of them physically alive.
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    There is no rationale for claiming that Daniel's 70th week has anything to do with the "last days" and Revelation 6-19 really has nothing to do with the Apostate Jews or Israel. The Book of Revelation is written for the benefit of Christians especially those undergoing persecution. Furthermore, I think the date when Revelation was written is irrelevant. It is the word of God, period. I call your attention to the opening words of the Book which tells us to whom the Book was written!

    Revelation 1:1-4
    1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    2. Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
    3. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
    4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;


    I call your attention to the enlarged phrases above. The Jews are not and were not the servants of God, only true believers are. Furthermore the Jews do not constitute the Churches, only true believers do.

    In my opinion the "abomination of desolation" was related to the continuation of animal sacrifices in the temple after the perfect Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. As Jesus Christ promised in Matthew 24 the temple was destroyed by the same people with whom the Jews conspired to crucify their Messiah.

    I would also note that Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: was fulfilled before the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Philip Schaff in his History of the Christian Church [8 volumes] describes the persecution of the Church by the Jews, as follows [Volume II, page 36] and notes the flight of Christians from Jerusalem prior to its destruction:

    The Jews had displayed their obstinate unbelief and bitter hatred of the Gospel in the crucifixion of Christ, the stoning of Stephen, the execution of James the Elder, the repeated incarcerations of Peter and John, the wild rage against Paul, and the murder of James the Just. No wonder that the fearful judgment of God at last visited this ingratitude upon them in the destruction of the holy city and the temple, from which the Christians found refuge in Pella.

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  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You totally misunderstand both the Scripture and what I believe!

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  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The context of Matthew 12 is casting out demons which Christ did BEFORE the cross and was presently occurring at the point of discussion:

    Mt. 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

    Hence, this is a PRE-cross context of the ministry of the Spirit manifested in casting out demons

    That is not the context of Revelation 19-20.

    The context of Revelation 19-20 is the Post-Second Advent of Christ. Christ comes and puts down all powers (Rev. 19:11-21). He casts the false prophet and beast into Gehenna and at the very same time casts Satan into a bottomless pit (as they are still in Gehenna after the end of this 1000 years - Rev. 20:10) - all this occurs between the second advent and the Great White judgement seat (Rev. 20:10-15. This is all POST-Second coming context but a Pre-Great White Seat context. So your Matthew 12 application is completely off base.

    Second, the thousand years begins with Satan cast into the bottomless pit not with the cross or Pentecost.

    Third, it is "the nations" he will deceive "NO MORE" not the regenerated man whom Christ has removed Satan from ruling within. However, RIGHT NOW the nations are under Satan's power and deception completely, and are at war with God - it is called "the world" and he is the "god" of this PRESENT world. So your Matthew 12 application is clear out of the park.

    Fourth, John places it again in the same chronological context with the time the beast and false prophet are in Gehenna - Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Therefore, placing the casting of Satan into this pit BETWEEN the time the beast and false prophet were FIRST cast into Gehenna and the end of this thousand years when they are STILL in Gehenna. Hence, it is chronologically and irrefutably placed between the Second Advent and the Great White Seat Judgement.

    You can't argue that Revelation 21:1 opens up a new vision that is OUT OF CONTEXT with its preceding and foregoing chronological factors as noted above. In each vision given from Rev. 19:1-10; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 20:1-15; Rev. 21:1, there is a chronological order within each vision, and a chronological order between each vision. For example, the vision seen beginning in Revelation 19:11-17 concludes with the false prophet and beast being cast into gehenna AT HIS SECOND ADVENT. The next vision (Rev. 20:1-15) carries it forward from that point as the very same false prophet and beast are in Gehenna (Rev. 20:10) at the end of the 1000 year period proving the thousand year period terminates AFTER the time the prophet and beast are cast into Gehenna in the previous vision. Any competent and reasonable reader can easily see that the overthrow of the prophet, beast and Satan is the direct consequence of the Second Advent as Satan's time in the bottomless pit for 1000 years is placed squarely between casting the beast and false prophet into Gehenna and terminates while they are still in Gehenna.

    Trying to deny this will require denying Revelation 19:11-19 is descriptive of the Second Advent. Any person who attempts to deny that Rev. 19:11-21 refers to the Second Advent is hopelessly so messed up that it is worthless to even discuss anything with them.
     
    #72 The Biblicist, Mar 1, 2015
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  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    First I know full well the context of Matthew 12 and I also know full well that Jesus Christ said the following in verse 29: Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

    Who does the "strong man" represent? I say Satan! And Jesus Christ has told us, whether you agree or not, that in order to cast out demons He must first bind the strong man. I don't find that difficult to believe given other Scripture that speak of the defeat of Satan by the cross-work of Jesus Christ {Hebrews 2:14}. However, given the above Scripture in the context of all the Bible it is clear that the binding of Satan, a spirit being not a physical being, is not the same as the destruction of Satan mentioned in Revelation 20:10.

    You say:
    If you will check my post #68 you will see that I made that very point. If you would be interested in what the binding of Satan and his inability to continue deceiving the nations means I can recommend some excellent exegesis!

    You are sadly misinformed if you believe I deny that Revelation 19:11-21 is a picture of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. It is the final of many pictures in the Book of Revelation of the Second coming. That being said it is you who are hopelessly messed up if you believe that the Book of Revelation is presented in chronological order. Revelation 20:1-10 is a recapitulation of the events presented in Revelation.

    You state:
    I don't believe I mentioned Revelation 21 unless you can show otherwise! And as for your remark:
    I say "give the man a ???doll. He got one thing correct, that is, if he is sufficiently competent to stop where I did!

    Being messed up as far as Scripture is concerned is your interpretation of it. Furthermore, I have found it is worthless to even discuss anything with them.

    You also say:
    Perhaps it is only a semantic error but Revelation 19 cannot be a "Post-Second Advent of Jesus Christ." I simply note your closing statement:
    The Second Advent cannot be post Second Advent, can it?


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    #73 OldRegular, Mar 1, 2015
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  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Look at the way you address my post. You don't address the arguments in the order given. You simply pick and choose bits and pieces jerking what I say out of context or completely avoiding what I said. Exactly, as you deal with scripture.

    Look at my post. The Context is CASTING OUT DEMONS, thus casting out Satan. You can't deal with that because it is presented in a PRE-cross context. So no "cross-work" defeat here at all but the kingdom work of the Spirit BEFORE the cross. Here let me spell out to you if you can't read or just refuse to read it in context:

    24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
    30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


    Do you see verse 28 and verses 30-31?????? This is not a context of CROSS WORK but a subject of PRE-cross work of the Spirit confirming that Christ was the Messiah by POWER in casting demons out of people. It has NOTHING to do with Revelation 20 - NOTHING except in the fertile imagination of a-miller's.
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Nobody claims Satan is a "physical" being or that Satan is being "destroyed" either in Revelation 20:2-3 or Revelation 20:10. The false prophet and beast were not "destroyed" by being cast into Gehenna and neither will Satan be "destroyed" by being cast into Gehenna.

    However, Satan is a LITERAL spiritual being and a literal spiritually being can be metaphorically "bound" so that he cannot "DECEIVE" the nations. Metaphors and literal things are used without conflict all through the Bible.

    To say that Satan is prevented ("bound") from DECIEVING the nations (not the elect) right now is ludricous as AFTER the cross Paul explicitly states that Satan has "BLINDED" the lost (2 Cor. 4:2-3) and John says he is the "god" of this world in a spiritual state of DARKNESS. Christians are being deceived left and right.


    If it is anything like your present posts, then it is a waste of time to read, just another example of eisegesis dressed up as exegesis.

    You don't read too well do you? Or is it a matter of comprehension? I never said any such thing. I never said the book of Revelation is presented in chronological order. What I said was that each vision given between Revelation 19-20 is chronologically arranged within itself and there is an overlapping chronological order between these visions. The vision in Revelation 19:1-10 provides a chronological order of events within that vision. The vision in Revelation 19:11-21 provides a chronological order of events within that vision. Revelation 20:1-15 provides a chronological order of events within that vision.

    All three overlap each other where a chronological order can be established, and that is your problem. The false prophet and beast are cast into Gehenna at the end of the vision in Revelation 19:20-21 and the vision in Revelation 20:1-15 overlaps that chronologically as both are still in Gehenna at the end of the 1000 years in Rev. 20:10. Hence, the 1000 years falls into the chronological period between the false prophet and beast being cast into Gehenna and its close. Satan is bound up during the same exact period. So this 1000 years is restricted between the Post-second coming casting of both into Gehenna and the Great White Seat judgement.



    The Second Advent is a Post-fact, as Revelation 19:20 occurs AFTER Revelation 20:11-15 but BEFORE Revlelation whereas the 1000 years must occur IN BETWEEN as the casting and remaining of the prophet and Beast is inseparably and contextually related to this 1000 year period.

    Your interpretation is forced because of you are forced to make scripture fit your views.
     
    #75 The Biblicist, Mar 1, 2015
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  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Who said they were.

    I am happy to know that you know that.

    Some are! I will be happy to give you a reference on what the binding of Satan means as it regards deceiving the nations. You do need help




    And you are an expert at eisegesis. You deny the most direct Scripture in the Bible regarding a general resurrection and judgment.

    John 5:28, 29
    28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


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    Perhaps it is a matter that what you write is incomprehensible. Compare the following statements.
    You said in your earlier post #72:
    They are as clear as mud! But the implication is that Revelation is presented in Chronological order. And then there is this!

    Perhaps you would do better to simply cut and paste!

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    Do you really understand what you wrote above? It is gibberish!

    You are simply running around in circles chasing something!

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  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    To those with Spiritual Comprehension the entire Bible is about the Cross-work of Jesus Christ! Try reading Genesis 3:15. You might learn something that will help you!

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  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Here is the indisputable evidence for a Pre-millennial position.

    1. Revelation 19:20 occurs chronologically AFTER Christ's revelation from heaven and destruction of the armies of this world but BEFORE Revelation 20:10 as the beast and false prophet cannot still be in Gehenna (Rev. 20:10) before they are actually cast into Gehenna (Rev. 19:20).

    2. The thousand years terminates when Satan is cast into Gehenna where the beast and false prophet already are - Rev. 20:10. Hence, the beast and false prophet are in Gehenna DURING and AFTER the 1000 year period and yet they are not cast into Gehenna until AFTER the second advent (Rev. 19:20).

    3. Revelation 19:11-21 ends without a complete victory because only the PHYSICAL powers and leaders are conquerered but no mention of the spiritual power BEHIND THEM. To claim there is no SPIRITUAL POWER operating behind them and leading them in this rebellion is simply foolish. Hence, the thematic chronological order is only completed by Satan being "bound" or else the SPIRITUAL power behind these armies, beast and false prophet has not been subdued by Christ, and therefore, Satan is still the "god" of this world.
     
    #78 The Biblicist, Mar 1, 2015
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  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You have proven my point that it is a hopeless endeavor to attempt to reason with a-millers. Your responses are simply childish and desperation. A Sunday school child can easily see that your proof text is completely jerked out of its context:

    24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
    25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
    26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
    27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
    28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
    29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
    30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    Can you read verses 26-27 and verses 30-31 and understand what is being said??? Apparently not! I am out of this mess of confusion.
     
    #79 The Biblicist, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2015
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Apparently your problem is confusing the wrath of God against Satan and his as pictured in Revelation 19:11-21 as a physical battle. The truth is the battle is spiritual not physical. It is silly to claim that the picture of Jesus Christ riding a white horse with a sword in His mouth to smite the nations is a literal physical picture. Those who worship the beast, his ‘army’ are killed with the sword which proceeds from the mouth of the glorified Saviour. Again this is not a literal sword. The instrument of death is simply the glory of God, for mortal man cannot look upon that glory and live. The Apostle Paul puts it simply: .... the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming [2 Thessalonians 2:8, NKJV].

    I noted earlier that Revelation 20:1-10 is brief recapitulation of events since the ascension of Jesus Christ. Revelation 20:9, 10 is simply the conclusion of the battle of Revelation 19:11-21:

    9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


    Surely your spiritual discernment is better than to believe in a physical battle between God and Satan, whether that described in Revelation 19:11-21 or the conclusion described in Revelation 20:9,10.

    Here is the indisputable evidence that the premillennial position is wrong. I enlarge this Scripture because, sadly, so many ignore it or try to splinter it!

    John 5:28, 29
    28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


    There is one resurrection of all the dead, not 2, or 3, or more.

    ******************************************************************
     
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