Featured Monergists & Synergists: Divide or Unify?

So much for unifying monergists and synergists. The better practice is "you go to your church and I will go to mine".....done and done.:thumbs:

 

The only thing that gets repeated is your twisting of words, either from a lack of comprehension, or the fact that you are just a disruptive troublemaker.
You do not want to work through the verses at all as it shows your lack of any theological base.
Pt does not agree for now, but he at least seeks to engage the issue head on. Many who say they are non cals but engage the discussion study themselves into a new position. Others go on in error and miss the truth ,failing to embrace of love of the truth.

 

Yep....I'm with ya all the way on this one. And if my recent experience with certain Synergist pastors not evening returning a sincere call of inquiry because I'm a 5P Amil, then I have to conclude they don't want us in their churches either. But that's OK by me....I don't need to rock the boat.

 

Some have a teachable spirit and can and do learn. Others have an agenda and function as gainsayers,,,,Look at this directive to elders in titus 1...it shows the characteristics of the gainsayer;

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;

9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

Listen Brothers, I visited with a very Orthodox Lutheran Church in my community who desired that I become a member only I would have to change my belief system, so I declined. The Pastor still calls & writes me but I cannot trade in what I consider a precious gift (of DoG theological understanding) for a Lutheran one. I just couldn't see myself adapting to Piedo (sic) baptism, Universal atonement, Luther's Small Catechism, a sacramental grace system, whatever. Now I liked these people, I never questioned the serenity of their salvation----but its not for me. I don't see allot of the traditions they hold to as necessary or biblical but I don't question these folks being Christians....a little odd maybe but they are probably saying the same about me.

 

Been there done that. What I want most is a higher level of learning .....to be fed and these guys are on two different levels (1) very basic (2) I need to change you. Big waste of time cause (1) dont waste my time (2) I aint changing my beliefs for no man....and lastly get busy and theologically feed me. And since there is no higher church than these superficial ones then I will pass. Oh and BTW, Ive already been to them already. I also have one last criterion..... that they be fairly local (in the community) ....see I can sit & listen to broadcast messages via airwaves & sermons & get fed....but I want that same nourishment to penetrate into my community---they sorely need it.

Addendum: Maybe that last one is a call to action by someone crying out in the desert "LOL" Yea, Im taulkin ta you! :

 

I went to every church within a 30 mile radius. These guys at least read & studied the bible.

 

Consider simply the parable of the gates. There is a broad gate that leads to damnation, and many enter in at that gate. There is a narrow gate leading to eternal life that only a few enter in at. This is not to say that the "few" is not a vastly large number, but it is smaller than the number entering into damnation. Per your doctrine, God enable the Elect to attain salvation through grace. This, ostensibly, is the love of God. What is God's emotion to those He created but chose instead to damn? What is His emotion toward those that Calvin himself said God illumined only for a time, and then turned over to greater blindness because of their unwillingness?

We both agree that man is responsible to repent. But Brother C1 pointed out elsewhere that the spirit/will/desire to repent is a gift from God, ergo God is the one who enables/executes repentance within a man. Following that logic, if man does not repent, it is because God did not move him to repent. If God does not move or enable a man to repent, seeing as only God can allow that man to repent, then how does it make any sense, following scripture, for God to hold man accountable for not doing what he was never allowed to do? Just look at the scriptures. You will see Jesus Himself lamenting over Jerusalem being unwilling to turn to Him. If the truth was that God never enabled them to turn, then why would Jesus speak so?

No. I will agree with John Piper on one sentiment. No matter what happens, He is God and I am just a man. I have no standing whatsoever to rail against the Almighty.

Again, as I explained above, consider the parable of the gate. I will admit that the "select few" is a great number. John referred to them as a innumerable multitude. That does not change the fact that it is a smaller number than those entering into damnation.

Again, as noted above, it is the fact that your doctrine teaches that God regenerates and then inexorably and irresistibly calls men unto salvation. Since this call cannot be resisted you cannot reasonably say that man had any choice in the matter. Conversely, if God never gives regeneration and the call to man, then man is effectively kept from salvation by virtue of God withholding salvation from him.

I'm not blaming God for man's sins. I don't even account God as the originator of Sin, as some folks do. I just think it's not in line with scripture to hold to the theology that you guys do. Then again, we basically knew our theological and doctrinal differences were bordering on irreconcilable. As I said elsewhere, I would never try to say that someone who doesn't hold to my theological bend is not one of His sheep, nor would I say that God has not properly revealed things to them yet.

 

While I absolutely love the opportunity we have to discuss and debate the topic, and even though I get heated I hope you all understand that I harbor no ill will toward anyone on this board, it is statements like the one bolded above that bother me.

I might disagree with your stance, but I would not deign to say that someone who disagrees with me is "go[ing] on in error" and "failing to embrace of love of the truth." You are basically saying at that point that the gospel message I preach, which I have always striven to base in scripture, is not done in "love of the truth." Even if you stood and preached, so long as you preached Jesus crucified, resurrected, and ascended, I would never say you were outside the love of the truth.

 

But you are not a Calvinist brother. If you shall ever become one, then you too shall look down your nose at us stiff necked and unlearned goats.

You try to have reasonable debate, but you are not dealing with a theology which has room for brotherly love towards those who do not comply. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Please bring forth a post from me where I twisted, changed, altered, clipped or snipped anything you posted. I always quoted you word for word, context for context, FULL quote for FULL quote. You can't, so nobody is going to wait and see if you step up and back up your accusation. Once again, you just make yourself look silly.

 

PT is a Calvinist.the more he dialogues and speaks back and forth you can see that he agrees with most of the things that are presented to him from the scripture.
in post about 97 I explain my thoughts on this and I think you'll see that it gets proven over and over on this board.

 

I've already done that I'm Shown where you've taken something I did say but out of sequence and no one is going to remember the question that was asked ahead of time and what the answer was
you try to redefine it to make it slander me and my view

 

Never, not once! I posted quote for quote, never out of sequence. And of course you know this so you are intentionally lying. And surely you know the whole board knows as well.

 

Oh the beauty of Calvinism :sleep: