Featured Did Christ Atone for ALL humans?

Jesus Christ died only for the Elect!

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Who are the elect?

 

Should this be in the Cal/Arm forum?

Regardless...

FOR WHO DID CHRIST DIE?
John Owen

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

1. All the sins of all men.
2. All the sins of some men, or
3. Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

1. That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
2. That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
3. But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, "Because of unbelief."

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"

 

.....you hard head, can't you follow instructions?

 

BTW: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

 

Those ordained to eternal life. Acts 13:48
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

They were wicked and ungodly sinners that God has purposed to save.

He saves everyone of them...not one will be lost. He is not willing that any of them perish, but that all will come to repentance.

In Jn 3 they are described as...EVERYONE BELIEVING.....and continuing to believe.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Those for whom Jesus Christ died!

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Comes from bumping my haid against the top, afore I got smart and left!

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Acts 13:48! A wonderful passage of Scripture that set me on the road to the truth about Salvation! I can still hear my Dad softly quoting that Scripture to me!

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1 Timothy 2:1-6 says,
"First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time."
That's pretty explicit. It means just what it says. Christ died as a ransom for all, so limited atonement is false. God desires all men to be saved, so unconditional election and double predestination are false. Christ is a ransom for all, and God desires all to be saved. Many Calvinists struggle with this: how could an all-powerful God's will be thwarted? It's precisely because salvation must be freely accepted or rejected. God will not force someone to make a free choice. We see this quite clearly when Christ says to the people of Jerusalem in Matthew 23:37:
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.”

 

Does anyone know for sure?

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. V26

But every man in his own order: A. Christ the firstfruits; B. afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. V 23

Then cometh the end, (Of death?) C? when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. V24

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. V28

V55 YLT where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'

 

...dag nab, this whole bunch is a lot of hard heads....

 

I don't think Walter is speaking of Universal Salvation in the sense that most people consider it (all people will be redeemed to God). Instead, he's pointing out the Salvation is available to all, but that man is free to accept or reject it.

 

Man's punishment was laid upon Christ when God bruised His very own Son. That wrath from God that should have been poured out on us was poured out upon His Son. I am sure we're in agreement here.

Now, it Christ paid for people's sins, if Christ's propitiation was for everyone who was ever in a womb...

--then what wrath is there to pour out?

--if Christ redeemed all men without exception, then why are people dying and going to hell?

 

I am not a Universalist in the sense I listed earlier. However, the alternative point of view offered by the Cal camp, that of Limited Atonement, is not something that I see in the scripture, either. Looking at the character and nature of God, revealed through Jesus Christ, does not show me limited atonement.

Otherwise, as Bro. Willis and I have discussed at length in other threads, we are left with a God who requires and commands all men everywhere to repent, yet withholds that ability from some men, but still blames them for not doing what He never allowed them to do in the first place. That, to my study, does not work with scriptures like Rev. 3:20, Rev 22:17, Matt 11:28-30, Matt 23:37, John 3:17-18, and many others.

Such is the nature of our varied interpretations of scripture. Under the model of limited atonement, with Election/Predestination being so certain in the Cal mind, then why strive so hard to preach? If God has already atoned for those who are Elect, then Paul's letter to the Romans is not necessary. Why bother telling people that they must believe, but must first hear the preached word before they can believe, if in the mind of the Cal, everything is already accomplished and God has already sealed those He Elected?

As to the "yes or no" aspect, sorry RW, but I don't like playing that game. It sets up a logical fallacy and attempts to over-simplify an issue with much more than just two facets.

 

Lots of problems here. One is Scripture does not contradict Scripture. Opinions do. Christ chose you, you did not choose Him. If Christ died for all men, and there is no election, then you assume that sinful man can respond to a Divine nature without outside intervention. How can you read Romans 1 and think we have the ability to accept or reject a call? In our flawed state, we do not care about a call. Your own verse betrays you. Since we have no ability to respond, why is it some are not willing? The chicks under the wings are the elect. While God desires for all to come to salvation, He does not choose all men. Everything works in perfect harmony, even those things that seem to contradict each other. Oh and by the way, don't your create your own strange form of TULIP by the fact you believe only those who are members of the RCC are saved?