Featured Did God predestine ISIS & Boko Haram to rape, torture, kill the Christians?

Yes, Scripture is much more clear:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If one is to accept God's "pardon" the forgiveness of sins, he must believe.
Those that do not believe are not pardoned.

"He came to his own but his own received him not."
Neither were they pardoned. They rejected the pardon that Christ offered them.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
--It is evident that it was offered to the whole world.

The plain sense of scripture tells us otherwise:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The basis for that healing is belief or faith. He heals all who believe. He died for all. That "healing" is efficacious to them that believe.
Look at the verse again:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Is it just the elect, a chosen few that were "dead to sins,"? Or is all the world dead to sins? Christ died for the sins of all the world. He is writing to those who, like the rest of the world are dead in sins, but these chose to believe on him.

CONTEXT:
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The work of God was to reconcile the whole world unto himself. If you don't have that in mind the passage makes no sense. He did not impute their trespasses unto them (they rejected him).
Therefore he has made you (us) ambassadors and has given us this ministry of reconciliation, that we might tell them they can be reconciled to the God who has already died for them. Only in that context can verse 21 make sense.

Jesus paid the ransom for many. Not all have received that ransom. Many have rejected it, just like many have rejected other gifts as well. There are many proud men that reject different gifts for varying reasons. They don't want "charity." They don't see themselves as sinners. They don't see themselves in need of "ransom money." It is a humble thing for one to see themselves in need of a ransom payment.

Those that are sanctified are those that believed.
Or are those that are sanctified the elect that at one time not sanctified? Which is it? Were you born into this world a "sanctified person"?

That applies to every man. His death is efficacious to all who believe. It is not limited. If it were limited to "the elect" could you prove to me that you are one of the elect?

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
Justification comes by faith, believing in Christ. Did you?
Christ died for all, that all might have the choice to believe.

The many are those who chose to believe. He still died for all.

That is in answer to verse 10 which teaches that all are under sin; all are under the law. Christ came to deliver us all. He was made a curse for all.

Written to believers. This is the blessing that believers have because they have been redeemed.

Again, he is writing to believers assuring them of the blessings that they have because they have put their faith in Christ.

AMEN! The offering of Christ, once for all!

It simply can, and does.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
He is reconciling the world unto himself.
He desires the world to be saved.
He has made an atonement for the sins of all the world.
He desires that all should come to repentance.
He does not desire that any should perish.

His will has been made very clear to us. The question ought to be: Why do so many want to rebel against the clearly revealed will of God.

 

Yes, My God did, and even more importantly, He Predestinated men to Kill His Only Begotten Son, who is of Higher Value than any ! Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 

Brother annsni,

Good post regarding concurrence! It is intent that makes an act evil.

 

:thumbs: That is the exact nature of concurrence. Genesis 50:20 says that Joseph's brothers AND God meant for those things to happen to Joseph. God used the desires of Joseph's brothers. The difference, God's intent (as always) was good and Joseph's brother's intent was evil.

 

It does not read, as some here would think though, that God caused the brothers to sin, but that he caused the good to come out of their choice to sin!

 

Sorry sister! I guess I shouldn't just assume everyone on here is a man! lol

 

I agree brother Yeshua!

 

I don't know if we're saying the same thing. I would say God caused the events to take place. God and Joseph's brothers intended for those events to happen to Joseph. The difference is there was good behind God's intent and evil behind Joseph's brothers intent. Some view the verse as "You meant it for evil, but God caused it to turn out for good" but it is "You meant it for evil, but God MEANT IT for good".

 

Please do not conflate false Christianity with true Christianity.

Iraq and the Middle East is replete with false Christianity.



Chaldean Patriarch Louis Raphael I Sako on his installation March 6.

 

I would tend to see this as same as in the Cross, where God directly determined that Jesus death would happen, bit that he also used the williful choices of sinners intent on getting Him placed on that cross!

He did not "force/cause" them though to act against what they wanted, as they all agreed to get Him nailed up there to die...

Same way, God was causing the events the Brothers did to being about his plans to have Joseph raised up by pharoah in Egypt, but did not 'force" them to at against their will, as he permitted them to do just what they desired!

 

Amen :thumbsup:

 

Brother Eliyahu,

No, I am Primitive Baptist. It is on my profile for all to see.

Do you believe God is in control of all things (including sin)? Does God overcome sin by being smarter than the wickedness of man by having the outcome work to a greater good?

 

Hi Brother Eliyahu.

This article addresses your issue about Predestination of all things and God still not being the author of sin. It is rather long, thus I will be posting it in three posts.

"Absolute Predestination by Gilbert Beebe



The Old School or Primitive Baptists in former years have been very definitely identified and distinguished from all other religious or ecclesiastical organizations as Predestinarian Baptists, and as such have borne reproach and vituperation from those who hold more limited views of what we regard as the absolute and all pervading government of God over all beings, all events, and all worlds. With deep solicitude and painful concern we have witnessed in the preaching and writings of some of our brethren a disposition to so yield or modify the doctrine as to limit its application to such things as the carnal mind of man can comprehend or the wisdom of this world can approve. While some will concede that all things that they regard as pure and holy are ordained or predestinated of God, they deny that the absolute government of God does dictate by absolute decree the wicked works of wicked men and devils, for that, they say, would make God the author of sin. They therefore set up their judgment, and set bounds for Infinite Wisdom to be restricted to, and beyond which limitation He must not extend His government, without subjecting Himself to their censure as an unjust God and the author of sin. But how lamentable is the infatuation of poor, blind mortals, when

‘The vain race of flesh and blood
Contend with their Creator, God;
When mortal man presumes to be
More holy, wise or just than He.’

There are undoubtedly many of the dear people of God who feel jealous for the glory of God, and who, without any aspiring ambition to be wise above what is written in the sacred Scriptures, from inability to comprehend the two great parallel mysteries of godliness and of iniquity, have felt a commendable concern lest in our weakness we should impute to God aught that would reflect on His adorable perfections, or withhold from Him that which He has ordained for the manifestation of His glory. It certainly becomes us, as finite beings, to speak of Him and of His government with fear and trembling. He is the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, and His name is Holy. His attributes are veiled in that infinity which no finite being can by searching find out. He keepeth back the face of His throne, the place and power of His government, and spreadeth His cloud upon it. As the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are God’s ways higher than our ways, and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. The standard of infinite purity and holiness is the will of God. There can be no higher law than the will of God, for only to the standard or counsel of His own will and pleasure does He Himself conform. ‘He worketh all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11).’ ‘Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure (Isaiah 46:10).’ In this connection He said, ‘I am God, and there is none like me.’ And in the revelation of the Lamb, in whom all the fullness of the Godhead dwells, ‘The four and twenty elders fall down before Him that sat upon the throne, and worship Him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory, and honor, and power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created (Revelation 4:10,11).’ ‘O the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor? or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen (Romans 11:33-36).’

When God created the Heavens and the earth no other power than His own was employed, no wisdom but His own was consulted, nor was there any other than His own will to dictate what, how, or for what purpose anything should be created. As a potter has power over the clay, it is his right to form his vessels as he please; and if he forms of the same lump vessels to honor and vessels to dishonor, who shall dispute his right to do so? The prophet says God is the potter and we are the clay; then, ‘What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory (Romans 9:21-23).’ Dare any of us poor, finite worms of the dust dispute the sovereign right of God to do all His pleasure in the armies of Heaven and among the inhabitants of earth? ‘Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?’ How appropriate and forcible are the words of Job, ‘Hell is naked before Him [God], and destruction hath no covering. He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in His thick clouds, and the cloud is not rent under them. He holdeth back the face of His throne, and spreadeth His cloud upon it. He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. The pillars of Heaven tremble and are astonished at His reproof. He divideth the sea with His power, and by His understanding He smiteth through the proud. By His Spirit He hath garnished the Heavens; His hand hath formed the crooked serpent. Lo, these are parts of His ways: but how little a portion is heard of Him? but the thunder of His power who can understand (Job 26:6-14)?’"

 

Article continued



"Can we contemplate the awful majesty, profound wisdom, deep and unsearchable counsel, infinite goodness, unerring workmanship in all that He has condescended to let us know of His great and marvelous works, from the spreading abroad and garnishing of the wide Heavens, down to the formation of the crooked serpent, and still stand in doubt of His predestinating power and unrestricted government over all beings, all worlds, and all events?

Are death and hell and all things naked before Him, and destruction uncovered to His all-seeing eye, and yet unlimited by His power and wisdom? Has He stretched out the north, and balanced the earth upon nothing, without any design, purpose or decree concerning their subsequent destiny? Has God bound up the waters in His thick cloud, and ‘given to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment (Proverbs 8:29),’ and yet left all to the vagary of chance? When He set His throne above the Heavens, was it to be the place of no power in controlling the destiny of all things in Heaven and earth and hell? For about six thousand years the sun, moon and stars have with exactness filled their respective orbits, and without the variation of a second of time from their creation made all their revolutions, in obedience to the decree of the Creator. Is it by chance that ‘The Heavens [thus] declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handiwork?’

But, say some to whose minds the doctrine of the universal government is obscure, ‘We admit that God has predestinated some things, but do not admit that He has predestinated all things which come to pass.’ Let us see how this partial or limited government would accord with the Divine record. Suppose that in what we have been contemplating of the Heavens we should find the sun and moon, and all the stars but one, held firmly in their orbits by the irresistible will and decree of God, and that one solitary star, without any fixed orbit, is allowed to range the infinity of space, wandering with more than lightning velocity, guided only by chance; where would be the safety of all the other stars? What would become of the predestination of those heavenly bodies intended to be preserved from hazard by the decree of God?

To us it has been a comforting thought that God has set the bounds of our habitation on the earth, and the number of our months is with Him, and our days are appointed to us as the days of an hireling, who cannot pass His bounds; but what assurance of safety would that afford, if He has left murderers and blood-thirsty men or devils unrestricted by His predestinating decree? To our mind, either everything or nothing must be held in subjection to the will and providence of God. Even the wickedness of ungodly men is restricted by predestination, so that ‘the wrath of man shall praise God, and the remainder of wrath He will restrain.’

‘Pains and deaths around us fly
Till He bids we cannot die;
Not a single shaft can hit
Unless the God of Heaven sees fit.’

For death and hell can do no more than His hand and counsel have determined shall be done. Does this make God the author of sin? or, in other words, does this make Him a sinner, or charge on Him an imputation of impurity? By no means. Against whom is it possible for God to sin? Is He amenable to any law above Himself? If so, by what law can He be indicted, in what court can He be tried or convicted? How preposterous! It is His eternal right to do all His pleasure,

‘Nor give to mortals an account,
or of His actions or decrees.’

It savors of atheism to deny that He is the self-existent, independent God who has created all things for His own sovereign will and pleasure. And if it be admitted that He had a right to create the world, and all worlds, it must then be also admitted that He had a right to create them according to His own will and pleasure. Worms cannot charge Him with error because He did not assign them a more exalted place in the creation, or for creating them worms instead of men. Men cannot justly charge Him for not creating them angels, nor angels because He did not make them gods. The world, with its infinite variety of living creatures, from the minutest insect to the most huge monster, as well as man, were all made for the pleasure of their Maker, and all must subserve the exact purpose for which they were made. Even the crooked serpent, as well as the harmless dove, all were pronounced good in their respective places; not good in the sense in which God is good, but good because they were precisely what He intended or predestinated them to be. Had the serpent been straight, or the dove crooked, or if the things made had been different from what the Creator intended, there would have been a defect in the workmanship. We cannot, with such exalted views as we entertain, think that God has ever failed to secure the perfect accomplishment of His own design or purpose in anything He has ever done. The entrance of sin into the world, and death by sin, which by the offense of one man has passed upon all mankind, was no unprovided-for event with Him, to whose eyes sin, death and hell have no covering. The eternal purpose which God had purposed in Himself before the world began was sufficiently perfect and comprehensive to include all that could and can possibly transpire, or He would not have declared the end of all things from the beginning. ‘Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world (Acts 15:18)."