Featured Did Paul teach the Pre-Trib view?

DHK

he has freedom to state what he believes that's why. Does he have to ask you for permission to have his own thoughts.
he has backed it up several times...it is true.

Oh really......so when Calvinists over and over say to you they have not read Calvin....that does not stop your non stop attack on them personally and your constant moaning about your caricature of Calvinism.

You speak of Calvin and Calvinism more than any Calvinist on here even to a point that you accuse O.R. of being a Calvinist when he says he is not.

If I had a thousand dollars for everytime YOU mention Calvin, or Calvinism...I would not have to drive anymore.

You mention Calvin more than OR mentions Darby....by a landslide...who gives you infractions or censors you for mentioning Calvin or Calvinism over and over???

He has not violated any rule even though you have been trying to bait him, and thereby censor him.
Who warns you DHK??? You do worse then any of us do and we do not whine about it.

 

That is about the 6th time you have posted that stuff. My initial comment was I thought Ephraim was Roman Catholic because he talked about penance. I see you have deleted that portion of his remarks. Very Clever!

 

Read the rules. Absolute freedom of speech is NEVER allowed, not even in the U.S. is it allowed. Have you ever boarded a plane. Would you yell: "There's a bomb on the plane," when it is full and in the air? Try jesting about terrorists with the immigration officers. There is no such thing as complete freedom of speech. Read the rules and find out how your freedom of speech is curtailed when it says: "post in grace," and see if you can figure it out.

Many of the Calvinists on this board act as if they would wear a big bright button saying: "I am a Calvinist and proud of it." They are proud of the name Calvinist, not ashamed of it.
Accepting my view of Calvinism is another thing of course. This is a debate forum. It is not "succumb to Icon's every idea forum."

He defends each and every point of Calvinism. When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then...?

That is up to you.

Most Calvinists are proud of their name.
We have nothing to do with Darby, don't believe in Darby's doctrines, etc.
Yet we are falsely accused it of almost daily. To be constantly falsely accused is not right.
OR admits to believing in the Doctrines of Grace.

False accusations and lies are wrong. You guys don't seem to get that.
Surely we live in the last days. Jesus is coming soon as the Bible teaches when even to the righteous wrong is right and right is wrong, and one cannot tell the difference between the two. Amazing!

 

Jesus would have no reason to preach to the "church", as the "church" was a mystery revealed later to Paul. Jesus' mission was to preach the available promised Kingdom to his brethren the Hebrews.
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Romans 15:8

Peter continued the work of Christ in preaching to his brethren the Hebrews that the promised Kingdom was still available if the Nation of Israel would but repent.
In mid-Acts, the Apostle Paul was chosen following the stoning of Steven. His Gospel of Grace through Faith, without Works was to be preached directly to Gentiles (bypassing Israel altogether).
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; Galatians 2:7

The Tribulation is for the "purification" of Israel so that they can fulfill their OT promises of serving Messiah on the earth, from Israel. "Church" to be removed so that Israel can be "purified". Israel is the "focus" of God's work for the Tribulation (ie: 70th Week of Daniel).

 

As usual you are wrong on all counts but you do need to learn the difference between those little words TO and OF!

 

I disagree with that taking place during the trib.

 

Not during His Ministry, but He certainly did through John:

The tenor of each letter is for those addressed to overcome. This promise is made to those who keep the Word of the Lord's patience, which is relevant to the Second Coming. He has not returned yet through mercy, because He is unwilling that any should perish.

Events in the First Century did not test everyone on the earth. In fact, in those events, the enemies of God were quite successful.

Nor did Matthew teach about regeneration.

Guess regeneration isn't in Scripture either.

Nor did Mark teach about the Eternal State.

Guess the new heavens and earth isn't in Scripture either.

Nor did Luke teach about how Bishops are to be chosen.

Guess that too is absent from Scripture.

Some think he did, both explicitly and implicitly:


Revelation 4

King James Version (KJV)

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


John 14

King James Version (KJV)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



If we try to say these are not references to the Rapture, and that they only pertain to those people involved, then I guess nothing in Scripture actually pertains to the Church, right?

The ones involved are those alive when the Lord returns. That is not up for debate, unless one wants to deny the Lord's own statement.

In the Rapture those present will be glorified and in that state joined eternally to the Lord.

Of course he did.


1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


The catching away is simply a first century teaching.

And unless we want to suggest, as you do, that a doctrinal view demands specific statement in every relevant verse, we can, when we balance the Word of God...see that the only place the catching away could take place is before the Tribulation.

Oh, but the Tribulation is not in Scripture for you either, is it.

Despite the fact that we have many passages, and an entire Book devoted to those events.

He did not use the word Trinity.

Guess that isn't in Scripture either.

James did not teach about the thousand years separating the First Resurrection (resurrection of Tribulation MArtyrs only) and the general resurrection of the dead just prior to the Great White Throne.

Guess that isn't in Scripture either.

Sure it is.

But if we buy into the theology established by the Catholic Church and never shed by those so-called "Reformed," then I guess it is pretty easy to miss.


God bless.

 

And you are 100% correct "perch"! It is just one more piece of evidence that the pre-trib-"snatching away" of the Church doctrine is nonsense!

 

.............................

 

Hey OR.....did you just get snatched away....lol before finishing the sentence?

 

Actually I was reporting DC's insulting remarks to see if DHK was fair and balanced but "missed the mark" so had to delete. Tell the truth at my age I could be "snatched out" at any time! GOD is Good!

 

I can't disagree with this point. The point being made is not attacking any one individual.
"It is." That is, the pre-trib rapture is taught in the Scriptures.
But if one buys into the theology established by the Catholic Church...I guess it is pretty easy to miss.

I don't see an attack on any individual here. It is a point well made.

 

So you think it worse to be called a follower of John Nelson Darby than to be called a follower of Roman Catholicism. That is very revealing! But it also shows that you are strongly biased against me and sanction me inappropriately. But that is okay. I have a life outside of BB!

But it is false to say the Biblical doctrine of amillennialism was establish by the Roman Catholicism. It was established by the LORD Jesus Christ, who was GOD in the flesh, long before Roman Catholicism ever existed!

But DC has called me a Catholic a dozen times or more. I simply ignore the source because he is like this child:

 

I agree that in some posts he has, and he shouldn't.
But in that post he did not. He did not address you personally.
He didn't even say that you were a follower of that doctrine. It was stated in completely neutral terms.

 

DHK

That was not the question....I said OR has the right to express His view without you dictating to him what he can say.....

You always "post in grace".....??? You accuse us of being catholics, heretics. believing in works salvation.....but you get no infractions...as if you are above the rules.....

This again is not the issue.....You speak of Calvin all the time even when we do not.

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You have shown you do not grasp it.

I never said it was...but if you do not like someone you give infractions to try and silence them like a cyber-bully......

Really ....if you were not being hypocritical then the same exact principle can be used by OR to describe you and premill posters.....if it looks like darbys [a duck]teaching, and sounds like it[a duck] and walks like it[a duck] then it is....even if you claim it is not.....That is the exact same thing you are trying to put on OR......

This again is not the issue.

And yet if do the same thing to cals everyday even when they tell you they have never read calvin.

Glad you feel that way as;
You accuse us of works salvation, heresy and worse everyday.

All Christians believe in grace,,,some just understand it better.

Yes...that is why several of us have asked you to stop doing it....

On the contrary.....you need to consider your ways....