Featured Christ payment was for all mankind

I see Mr. Rippon claims those God chooses to harden are His elect. However, if being His elect refers to those chosen for salvation, then God never hardens His elect. Like so many Calvinist posts, the entire issue is one of obfuscation and misdirection. The real issue is God hardens hearts to prevent them from coming to Jesus. Thus the doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken. Will this be addressed? Watch and learn.

 

Martin, you are wasting your effort at obfuscation. Did anyone say Jesus is not the Savior? Nope. So yet again, you are engaging in misdirection to obfuscate the fact Jesus is our propitiation or means of salvation. We are saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Next you claim someone that is ransomed is therefore saved. Another fiction. Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, yet all are not saved. Therefore your assertion is bogus.

Next, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches folks were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election. So you attempt to divert the discussion.

Folks, ask yourself how many other Calvinists deny Jesus is the means of salvation? Just read Romans 5:9 until it sinks in.

 

Hi OR, you said I say, "that through HIS death on the Cross Jesus Christ paid the sin debt for every person." Please provide the reference to the post where I said this.

When is the sin debt removed? When He died, or when a person is placed spiritually in Christ and undergoes the circumcision of Christ. I say when a person is placed spiritually in Christ. Please stop with all this mischaracterization. Please address the issue. Christ died for all mankind, He tasted death for everyone, He is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world.

And OR, why did God harden hearts if they were unable, bound by sin, to seek God and trust in Christ? Please answer rather than deflect that question.

 

Romans 5:9. Great text! We are SAVED by Christ; He is not the means of salvation; He is our Saviour.

BTW, there's nothing conditional about being chosen. You're either chosen or you aren't. God chose sinners in eternity past. He gave them to the Son who has redeemed them by His shed blood. Faith in the truth is the means that is used.

I'm still waiting for all those texts you're going to give me showing that Christ is described in the Bible as 'means of salvation.'

Come along now! Don't be shy!

 

No, you made that very claim in post 82. I questioned that statement in post 92. In post 93 you denied what you said in post 82. I wanted you to come clean in post 95. I had asked you point blank if you still held to what you said in post 82.

Now, you are claiming I hold to it, which of course is nonsensical. You have to own up to your own words.

You are all over the place. You need to be honest and clear.

 

According to Acts 13:48, we were ordained to eternal life.

Ephesians 1: 4-5 tells us that this ordaining was done before the world was even created because we were born spiritually dead (See Eph. 2:1-5ff).

Any sort of theology that claims otherwise runs completely against these NT verses and must therefore be rejected as heresy.

 

You are quite right in your theology, wpe3bql, but I am always very reluctant to use the H word. It has unfortunate connotations. If you changed that word to 'error,' I would be in full agreement with you.

 

Folks, as you can see, Mr. Rippon is simply changing the subject, a tried and true method to avoid the truth that Calvinism is mistaken doctrine. He plays games with "elect" using the same term for those chosen to be hardened and those chosen for salvation. Fiddlesticks.

 

Folks, Martin denies being chosen for salvation through faith in the truth is a conditional election. Obvious obfuscation.

Next Martin claims Christ is not the means of salvation, which is blasphemy. Next, he seems unable to comprehend Romans 5:9 where Christ is the means by which we are saved from the wrath of God.

Note the immense effort by numerous Calvinists to deny Christ died for the whole world, that Christ tasted death for everyone, that Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all.

1) Total Spiritual Inability is demonstrated mistaken by Matthew 23:13
2) Unconditional Election is demonstrated mistaken by 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
3) Limited Atonement as defined by Calvinism is demonstrated mistaken by 2 Peter 2:1
4) Irresistible Grace is demonstrated mistaken by Matthew 23:13.

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

You have no "folks" Van.

You had said in post 101 :"I see Mr. Rippon claims those God chooses to harden are His elect."

I demonstrated that your statement was a lie. You, in fact, made that absurd remark in post 82.

I have done no such thing. Please do not lie. The elect are the chosen. Those words are synonyms. The elect, or chosen ones are of course chosen for salvation.

God mercies some and leaves the rest hardened. If you disagree then you deny Scripture such as Romans 9:18.

These are two distinct groups. The elect certainly are not "chosen to be hardened."

 

I see we have "God mercies some and leaves the rest hardened." Does scripture say this? Nope. NASB Romans 9:18, So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. Both having mercy and hardening are verbs in the present tense. Thus "leaves hardened" is a rewrite.

 

Thanks DHK, John 14:6 is particularly on point.