Does God love everyone?

Rippon
I have told you that I believe all scripture. Yet your still on your high horse trying to argue a point that is settled as far as I’m concerned. My understanding is different than yours and I don’t care whether you don’t like it or not. I will not change my beliefs to suit you. So get off your bully act because I’m not impressed. You most likely would be scared to death to talk the way you do to people in person. If you do then I’ll bet you’ve been knocked on your back side more than once. So you hide behind your computer and try to push others around. You haven’t the skills to convince me of anything. You act like a spoiled little child having your tantrums. Trying to get what you want. Keep your tantrums up and you’ll find your self all alone. This is my last conversation with you so don’t address me again.

MB

 

MB, in what manner do you believe God hates? He does have wrath, so with wrath, there comes hatred, correct? So tell me why and who God hates and directs His wrath, in your opinion. Thanks.

 

Yet you deny the meaning of lots of Scripture. It is absurd for you to claim you believe all Scripture. It's a copout. You can't deal with specifics. What are you afraid of?

 

I posted this before but there was no response to it. But I believe Dr. Bob summed it best when he said this near the beginning of this thread::

http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/does-god-love-everyone.49084/#post-1234337

If God has any degree of love for an individual, as Dr. Bob expresses here, then that excludes hate.
God, in his very essence, is love.
BTW, that post was made more than 7 years ago in 2008.

 

Wrath is not defined as hatred in my dictionary. Paul wrote;
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
As I see it wrath can be violent anger yet I haven't found anything that would make me believe that wrath is hatred.
I don't think when Paul wrote that God hated Esau it was hate as we understand it today. But rather a preference . God blessed Esau with an inheritance that doesn't sound like God hated him at all. You know the Bible says that God hates Liars to and we are guilty of this yet He forgives liars so it isn't hate in the sense He wishes us harm but hatred of the sin or things we do that displeases Hi.

MB

 

I certainly agree with this. God is Love and being perfect Love there is no hatred in Love
MB

 

Thank you for your kind response. Now the Greek word for 'wrath' in Rom. 1:18 is from www.blueletterbible.com...

orgē....

1. anger, the natural disposition, temper, character
   
   
2. movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but esp. anger
   
   
3. anger, wrath, indignation
   
   
4. anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself
   
   1. of punishments inflicted by magistrates

From Vines....


Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words
1 Noun Strong's Number: g3709 Greek: orge
Anger, Angry (To Be):

originally any "natural impulse, or desire, or disposition," came to signify "anger," as the strongest of all passions. It is used of the wrath of man, Eph 4:31; Col 3:8; 1Ti 2:8; Jam 1:19, 20; the displeasure of human governments, Rom 13:4, 5; the sufferings of the Jews at the hands of the Gentiles, Luk 21:23; the terrors of the Law, Rom 4:15; "the anger" of the Lord Jesus, Mar 3:5; God's "anger" with Israel in the wilderness, in a quotation from the OT, Hbr 3:11; 4:3; God's present "anger" with the Jews nationally, Rom 9:22; 1Th 2:16; His present "anger" with those who disobey the Lord Jesus in His Gospel, Jhn 3:36; God's purposes in judgment, Mat 3:7; Luk 3:7; Rom 1:18; 2:5, 8; 3:5;5:9; 12:19; Eph 2:3; 5:6; Col 3:6; 1Th 1:10; 5:9.
See INDIGNATION, VENGEANCE, WRATH.
Notes:

(1) Thumos, "wrath" (not translated "anger"), is to be distinguished from orge, in this respect, that thumos indicates a more agitated condition of the feelings, an outburst of wrath from inward indignation, while orge suggests a more settled or abiding condition of mind, frequently with a view to taking revenge. Orge is less sudden in its rise than thumos, but more lasting in its nature. Thumos expresses more the inward feeling,orge the more active emotion. Thumos may issue in revenge, though it does not necessarily include it. It is characteristic that it quickly blazes up and quickly subsides, though that is not necessarily implied in each case.

(2) Parorgismos, a strengthened form of orge, and used inEph 4:26, RV margin, "provocation," points especially to that which provokes the wrath, and suggests a less continued state than No. (1). "The first keenness of the sense of provocation must not be cherished, though righteous resentment may remain" (Westcott). The preceding verb, orgizo, in this verse implies a just occasion for the feeling. This is confirmed by the fact that it is a quotation from Psa 4:4 (Sept.), where the Hebrew word signifies to quiver with strong emotion.

Thumos is found eighteen times in the NT, ten of which are in the Apocalypse, in seven of which the reference is to the wrath of God; so in Rom 2:8, RV, "wrath (thumos) and indignation" (orge); the order in the AV is inaccurate. Everywhere else the word thumos is used in a bad sense. In Gal 5:20, it follows the word "jealousies," which when smoldering in the heart break out in wrath. Thumos and orge are coupled in two places in the Apocalypse, Rev 16:19, "the fierceness (thumos) of His wrath" (orge); and Rev 19:15, "the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God."
See WROTH (be).

(3) Aganaktesis originally signified "physical pain or irritation" (probably from agan, "very much," and achomai, "to grieve"), hence, "annoyance, vexation," and is used in 2Cr 7:11, "indignation."

 

MB: In all the Scriptures I quoted there is no such distinction you have made i.e. "God hates the sin but loves the sinner." It's a common sentiment --but nontheless cannot be supported by Scripture. God hates, detests, loathes and abominates certain ones. There's no way around this fact.

 

I would consider that God's love does not include sinners is unsupported by Scriptures.

The principle of the statement "God hates the sin but loves the sinner" is found in such passages as,

"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5​

And even in John 3:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."​

The principle is born out in at least these two places.

Therefore, the statement of principle is supportable by Scriptures.

A system that considers God loves sinners before they are saved seems contrary to any view that says God restricts His love to those who are saved, and excludes all others. This is (imo) why there are those of the reformed who would project such a view. But then the projection has other problems, too.

As shown above, it could not be sin that prevents the unsaved from the love of God and there must be some other indicator. For 1 John says of believers, " 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." The "we" are believers. Therefore, it cannot be sin that prevents the Love of God.

If it isn't sin, and not condemnation (as stated in John 3 that the condemned are condemned by unbelief) then what would the reformed show to prove that God doesn't love everyone?

Unfortunately, for both sides of the argument, the Scriptures are consistently showing the special and particular love of God toward His own, be it the believers, or in the OT those whom He has claimed. It is remarkable, that the Scriptures present "God is Love" and not "God doesn't love" considering what attitudes the unregenerate have. But is that not as any righteous Father? The question resolves, does God not show His love in a general way toward all humankind in providing life and sustaining while granting great grace and merciful love toward His own?
"Gives rain to the just and unjust"

I am certainly not arguing that God loves everyone in equal measure, just as I would consider that family members are not loved equally. One does not share the same level of love for wife and children that they do with aunts, cousins, and more so those a certain number removed, or even of little acquaintance. If humans have such capacity of modulating love, then surely God has and does as expressed by example as He deals with and interacts with those who are NOT of His chosen, examples are already given in another post.

The principle of the Scripture is that God loves sinners but hates the sin, and as I have given more than one verse that shows that principle applies to believers, it would seem that the principle stands for all humankind.

 

Ultimately, one must take what our Lord Jesus Christ states in Luke 6 as either a suggestion, or as a compelling guide in which the believer must strive to obey.

Luke 6:

22 Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. 23 Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets. 24 But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full. 25 Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep. 26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way.

27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31 Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
​

Loving one's enemy was a statement by Christ for all believers. Certainly, God is an example of one who loves even His enemy, or He would not have been able to place such a demand upon the believer.

Should one teach that God doesn't love everyone, certainly then it would require some support from Scripture that would also consider that God expects out of a believer what He doesn't require of Himself.

Does God love everyone equally? NO

For to treat one or love one equally, is most unfair and most certainly not of Godliness.

 

Brother Agedman, Brother Rippon asked you if we should be jealous too, seeing God is a jealous God? So, we should be jealous as God is also jealous?

 

And there we have it. The inconsistency of the idea that God does not love everyone laid bare for all to see.

 

He obviously has love for everyone because he died for the sins of the whole world, and he wills that NONE perish. But sin is a stench in his nostrils that he hates. So I think when he says he hates all workers of iniquity, I think he means he hates what they do.

 

I'm sorry, I must have missed the question.

The answer is, YES.

Absolutely, believers are to be jealous over the same matters our Savior and God is Jealous. He will not allow any gods to "go before Him" in not only the area of exultation, but in honor, and priority. Believers are to be so dedicated that anything that is placed before God causes a righteous jealousy to rise up in our very soul! Be it worldly distractions in worship or some other that would detract from God being the single sustain-er and giver of truth and life. That would also includ anyone or thing that would detract from His holiness, the believer should be most certainly be jealous that God has in some manner been slighted.

For example, as a husband, I am most certain and sure going to display my jealous side if my wife is in some manner slighted. One would not want to tangle with a wife who loves the husband and perceives that the husband has been slighted or in some manner ridiculed. As a believer, I am also most certain and sure to display my jealous side if one makes light of the things of Scripture and of God.

For sure and certain, God is a jealous God and that which matters that causes His jealous attribute to be exposed should also matter to believers.

Believers are to reflect all the attributes of God.

 

These statements as posted are not at all correct.

 

"It is not laid bare for any with eyes to see.

 

Icon,

The question remains unanswered.

Does God require of believers what He does not of Himself? (or in other words)
Is there any attribute of God's character that the believer is not to reflect, or is there an attribute that a believer is to have that God does not?

 

agedman

AGM
This verse is not speaking of all men. It is speaking of justified believers.
If you are stating truth you will need to find it somewhere else, because this verse does not get it done.

Sorry, this does not show it either.....it does say everyone who believes and continues to believe are spoken of....

.
It is not sin that is cast into hell, but sinners.

 

agedman

These texts do not say what you want them to say.

We are to love our enemies...yes
We are to speak the truth and love...yes
God is good to all men....mt5;45....yes

At the White throne sinners will be cast into hell, not their sin. God hates sinners outside of Christ. The love of God that saves is only In Christ.

 

19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men.
20 For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take thy name in vain.
21 Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts;
24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting. Psalm 140 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. Ps 139