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Featured Has dispensationalism contributed to mistaken worldviews, or is it the truth ?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Let's attempt an edifying discussion on any and all of these questions!
    Select one question at a time, let us know which question you are addressing, make your biblical case and then respond biblically to the objector's

    Play nice....a person can hold a different end time calendar than you and still go to heaven.
    If you do not believe in the return of the Victorious Lord Jesus Christ as the blessed Hope...start your own thread:Cautious

    What is the relationship of Israel to the Church?
    Are saved Gentiles to serve saved Jews?....ie,{ in the millenium, or eternal state, be specific, no strawmen here}
    Is it all about OT Israel being raised up and restored?
    or;
    Was the Church always the main focus and Ot. Israel was a type of the church?
    Do you understand Jesus as the True Israel?
    Which are the top 3 books you would recommend on this issue?
    Can you correctly present the other views without it being a strawman fest?
     
    #1 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I believe Israel is the Olive Tree and the "Church" is the engrafted branch. Romans 11:17.

    (Spiritual) Israel is the precursor of the "Church." Revelation 21:12.
     
    #2 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No.
     
    #3 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No. There is a vast existential gulf between National Israel and Spiritual Israel.
     
    #4 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The main focus has always been the people of God. There is no dichotomy between the people of God prior to the cross (Old Testament saints) and the people of God after the cross (New Testament saints).
     
    #5 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I am of the opinion the writers of the New Testament seem to describe Him as such. He is the culmination of the Old Testament. He is the Last Adam, the suffering servant, the faithful remnant, and so on.
     
    #6 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The Bible.
    The Bible.
    The Bible.

    :)
     
    #7 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Excellent theology!
     
    #8 John of Japan, Sep 14, 2016
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Good imput....

    Having had a dispensational backround...I do maintain that in scripture Israel and the gentiles have been distinct in times past....but God has made a change now.
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JOJ....if the thread stays civil...I would welcome your imput/ and oversight of the topic.
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    If you believe in a future 1000yr millenium ,,,,,what of those who teach saved gentiles serve Jews in the millenium....have you heard such teaching? why did you discard it if you were taught it in times past....
     
    #11 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You seem to have a nuanced and blended view, which should be very helpful here if things progress nicely...good food for thought.
     
    #12 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes.....This has to be the biblical base for this issue.....
    there are saints who lived before OT Israel was a nation, there are saints who have existed while Israel was scattered, etc.
     
    #13 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, I think so. But I would have to know which type of Dispensationalism you are talking about.

    Darbyism?

    Scofieldism?

    Larkinism?

    Bullingerism?

    Ruckmanism?

    Ryrie’s Dispensationalism?

    Bock's?

    Dispensationalism covers the entire spectrum from the mild, Progressive Dispensationalism of Bock, through the Revised Dispensationalism of Ryrie and Walvood, the Classic Dispensationalism of Scofield and Chafer, the original Dispensationalism of Darby, and the Hyper Dispensationalism of Larkin and the Ultra Dispensationalism of Bullinger, Ruckman and others.

    Seems like a lot to discuss. :)
     
    #14 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the invitation. We'll see. The semester has begun and I'm in the middle of preparations.
     
    #15 John of Japan, Sep 14, 2016
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  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This is a key area of study. each important role and theme that the Lord Jesus fulfills has consequences as we move forward. Some of these things will develop here depending on the participation and interaction.
    Even John M says how you view Israel determines how you view your eschatology
     
    #16 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
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  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I believe they are in error without any biblical support for their position. We will all serve the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. :)

    Yes.

    I never really accepted it. Even while still in seminary I insisted on thinking for myself and not being held captive by the last lecture I heard or the last book I read.

    That philosophy of learning was supported by the President of the seminary, Dr. R.V. Clearwaters, who used to say, "If you agree with any man 100% only one of you is thinking." I think he was right. :)
     
    #17 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    For myself.....I can only speak from what i am familiar with.....I got off this train several years ago, so I cannot speak to the more modern forms, or adjustments that have been made. here is what I have been exposed to;
    Darbyism?

    Scofieldism?

    Larkinism?





    Ryrie’s Dispensationalism?

    through the Revised Dispensationalism of Ryrie and Walvood, the Classic Dispensationalism of Scofield and Chafer, the original Dispensationalism of Darby, and the Hyper Dispensationalism of Larkin

    i used to order the tapes from Believers Chapel.....S.Lewis Johnson. William Mcrae, and others ....
     
    #18 Iconoclast, Sep 14, 2016
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I do see that all types of Dispensationalism my have their limited truths (such as all the schemes of man) but I do not allow any of them to force me into their hermeneutic requiring me to understand the bible only according to their scheme.

    I suppose I am closest to Bock's Progressive Dispensationalism with the difference that I don't see the "dispensations" of the Old Testament to be as defined as even Bock sees, although he does acknowledge that there is less likely a sharp line of demarcation between them but, rather, a bluring of the transition without losing any of the former.

    If I was pinned down to answer how many dispensations I see in the bible the most honest answer would be "Two. The Old Testament and the New Testament." You can't go wrong following God's outline. :D
     
    #19 TCassidy, Sep 14, 2016
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  20. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    I consider myself a dispensationalist. However, with that being said, if I were to answer your questions, I would be parroting almost word for word what TC has already said.

    Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk
     
    #20 Sapper Woody, Sep 14, 2016
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