Featured Has dispensationalism contributed to mistaken worldviews, or is it the truth ?

Yes I can visualize that in my mind as a viable interpretation and at the end of the day(to quote a cliche) it just might be true and indeed in a limited way today it is true.

Ephesians 2:6 And (God) hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

I have no objections just a preference of choice to a different interpretation.

All who have believed the gospel- that Jesus Christ (God - the Logos come in the flesh) was crucified, died buried and resurrected for our forgiveness of sin and the promise of eternal life are my brethren.

IMO, Eschatology, doesn't make or break the effectiveness of the gospel.

HankD

 

I still hold the only distinction made is between Israel and Israel:

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: Ro 9

I still hold that otherwise there is no distinction made, in fact, the emphasis is on UNITY, not SEPARATENESS:

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10

12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction. And these six brethren also accompanied me; and we entered into the man`s house: Acts 11

9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15

22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3

28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3

13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

11 where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3

 

For this the church age I agree wholeheartedly K.

HankD

 

So you hold to the notion of the parenthesis Church? That God is going to undo this present arrangement called the Israel of God (the true Israel of Ro 9:6):

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

.... and there will a return to the old creature of two flocks instead of one?

 

By this, you were taught a false view of dispensationalism. The real teaching is that there is one plan for the human race, and that is the glory of God through Christ. "To the normative dispensationalist, the soteriological, or saving, program of God is not the only program but one of the means God is using in the total program of glorifying Himself" (Dispensationalism, Charles Ryrie, 48). Dispensationalism is a God-centered theology, not a man-centered one.

Any view of dispensationalism (or any other theology) which does not make the glory of God primary is very wrong.

 

No I do not hold to a notion of the church as a "parenthesis" just a difference in the God's expectations and requirements of the citizens of the kingdom of God (or heaven) on earth. The church age will end when the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

This is a corollary of Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Only those of Israel who were circumcised in heart (born again) and had become a new creature under the law were the Israel of God, the rest were those circumcised in the flesh only - national Israel.

No, one flock, two different breed varieties of sheep (Jew and Gentile).


B-a-a-a-a-a-h (oy vey)!
B-a-a-a-a-a-h (mama mia)!



HankD

 

Please let us know who you are quoting from. It is impossible to find out from your post #87, for example, since that is a file on your own hard drive. Sourcing a quote is basic.

 

You say simply, "the Covenant." Do you understand which covenant he means? Do you understand that he is opposing covenant theology? (There is more than one extra-Biblical covenant in covenant theology, so to say "the covenant" is misleading.) Are you yourself an adherent of covenant theology?

 

One of the objections to dispensational theology is the use of the term "parenthesis" being applied to the church as kyredneck has indicated and indeed I heard this teaching while in Bible college.

The objection being that in its definition is the supposed idea that the church is "an afterthought" on God's part.
Do a Google

https://www.google.com/#q=define+parentheses

pa·ren·the·sis
noun

1. a word, clause, or sentence inserted as an explanation or afterthought into a passage that is grammatically complete without it, in writing usually marked off by curved brackets, dashes, or commas.

This is why I personally reject the terminology myself.

I don't know of any dispensationalist who would say that the church was/is an afterthought on God's part.

I don't think those who invented the terminology did either and I think it is unfair to make those accusations.

To know before hand but reveal at a later time is not an afterthought.

Christ and His church - the Bride of Christ is a mystery - unrevealed in ages past but revealed by Christ and the apostles.

Ephesians 5:22ff - concerning Christ and His bride the church.

Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


HankD

 

Got some scripture that outlines God's 'different expectations' from His children here on earth? I'd really like to see some scriptural proof that Jews are judged differently from Gentiles, especially when it's abundantly clear from scripture that there is no such differences within the kingdom:

11 where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3

How are Jews judged differently from the rest of us?

That's just wrong Hank. Ro 9:6 is NOT about physical Jews only, the contrast is children of the flesh (physical Jews) vs. children of promise (spiritual Jews, those born from Jerusalem above, Jew and Gentile):

6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. Ro 9

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4

'The Church Age' is NOT a distinctly Gentile arrangement. It was Jews that were the first Christians! It was Jews who were Her foundation stones!

 

Typical MacArthur

 

Not within but differences under the law vs grace for instance:
Different dietary expectations before the church as opposed to after its inception.

They are not.

I disagree - I believe Romans 9:6 is concerned with Israel's past.

OK, no problem, that was then this is now

Agreed but still the gentiles are the emphasis and the greater harvest of the Great Commission:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 13:
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 18
5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Acts 28
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

2 Corinthians 3:15
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

History itself attesting that the church is the promise to Abraham that in his seed shall all nations be blessed.

HankD

 

Lol, so Paul pronounces in one sentence "neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision" and then the next sentence pronounces peace and mercy on the circumcision only.

Dispy chop suey.

You've a real problem with the Church being the 'Israel of God', don't you? Worded another way but means the same:

3 for we are the circumcision [the Israel of God], who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12

If Gentile Christians are no longer considered to be Gentiles what are they?

THE ISRAEL OF GOD.

 

God always has saved sinners thru faith alone, grace alone, and was based upon the person and work of Jesus at the cross...

He just administered that grace in differing aspects ways/ as more progressive revelation brought in more of the fullness...

Now under new Covenant, BOTh Jews/gebriles saved by Jesus, both now in the Church, but the saved jews comprise Spiritual israel now also..

At His Second Coming, God finally fulfills promise to them to have national israel reborn!