Christianity and Paganism - What is the Truth?

[Jason1]

No lies. Each Gospel records Yeshua claiming that he is YHWH himself.

Yeshua will say he never knew you, Jason. This is a sad fact.

No, you're making lies up about me time after time. It is quite sad

 

[MennoSota]

No, you're making lies up about me time after time. It is quite sad

You deny Yeshua is YHWH himself. This is not a lie. You attempt to hit the mark by your own efforts. This is not a lie. You have missed the mark and are dead in your trespasses and sins. This is not a lie. You need to be made alive in Christ so that you might hit the mark. This is not a lie.

 

[rsr]

I don't disagree with you, however, my point was that the claim of Rome as the indisputed interpreter of Scripture and accurate interpreter of Scripture is not true. What is true is that the Roman church uses tradition to interpret Scripture.

So do the Orthodox.

Yet it is true that the patriarchic churches of the East generally acknowledged the primacy of Rome, though not necessarily in the juridicial exercise of authority — unless, of course, it was to their advantage. An example is the battle of the iconoclastic Byzantine emperors against the Byzantine patriarchs. The patriarchs were eager to enlist the help of Rome in that circumstance because it strengthened their hand.

 

[Jason1]

You deny Yeshua is YHWH himself. This is not a lie. You attempt to hit the mark by your own efforts. This is not a lie. You have missed the mark and are dead in your trespasses and sins. This is not a lie. You need to be made alive in Christ so that you might hit the mark. This is not a lie.

I've explained many times yet you must not read it. I never denied him and i've always stated we needed him. In fact I state we need Him even more because He is the word. You even posted false links.

Your discredit campaign is over.

 

[MennoSota]

I've explained many times yet you must not read it. I never denied him and i've always stated we needed him. In fact I state we need Him even more because He is the word. You even posted false links.

Your discredit campaign is over.

Is Yeshua, Jesus, YHWH himself? Yes or no

 

[Jason1]

Is Yeshua, Jesus, YHWH himself? Yes or no

This has already been answered in another thread. How soon you forget.

 

[rsr]

I will bow out of this conversation because it it no longer about he OP but about "Hebrew roots."

It's a shame, really, because I think the documentary evidence is against Peter as the first bishop of Rome (based on Latin Rite documents).

 

[MennoSota]

This has already been answered in another thread. How soon you forget.

You refuse to say Yes, Jason. Your trespasses and sins remain and you are dead in sin.

 

[Jason1]

I will bow out of this conversation because it it no longer about he OP but about "Hebrew roots."

It's a shame, really, because I think the documentary evidence is against Peter as the first bishop of Rome (based on Latin Rite documents).

Rsr, the hebrew roots is all about coming out of paganism. Its only the Word stealer who keeps trying to stifle the truth.

And you're right, Peter was not the first pope. If it was a peter, it would more be peter magnus

 

[HankD]

LoL Hank, keep on going:

Joh 5:47 “But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My words?”

But you do not believe Him Jason. M keeps telling you who He is but you refuse Him.
Believe on Him and live forever.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM ye shall die in your sins.

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

HankD

 

[MennoSota]

I will bow out of this conversation because it it no longer about he OP but about "Hebrew roots."

It's a shame, really, because I think the documentary evidence is against Peter as the first bishop of Rome (based on Latin Rite documents).

Correct, the evidence does not support Peter as bishop, let alone the Pope. This being said, we are indebted to the churches who copied and kept the writings of the Apostles and early church leaders while they suffered persecution.

 

[HankD]

Rsr, the hebrew roots is all about coming out of paganism. Its only the Word stealer who keeps trying to stifle the truth

Jason, I don't know what your pre-HRM background was but here is an article which points also to other articles concerning what HRM is all about compared to orthodox Christianity.

The HRM and Christianity are not similar faiths that differ in non-essential aspects. The HRM and Christianity do not simply read from the same Book and interpret essential doctrines in different ways. Christianity does not lack that which is found in the practices and belief system of the HRM. Torah Observance is not an alternative form of Christianity and it cannot be practiced in conjunction with Christianity, it is a regressive form of religion in which there can be no forgiveness of sin or salvation.

The HRM distinctly opposes the very heart of the Gospel and their teachings and rituals are by no means biblical. By continuing to observe the Torah, they oppose God and follow blind men. Professor Malan states in the article: “What purpose will it serve if we start conforming to them [the HRM] while they still practise fulfilled and obsolete rituals which are devoid of the presence and light of the Messiah?"

The biggest disagreement being that HRM denies the Trinity, denies the deity of Christ, denies that salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing else (Torah keeping in particular).

I doubt that you will read it/them but here it is.

Torah Observance – Opposing God, Following Blind Men

HankD

 

[Bro. James]

From vitriol central: Amazing! Some one made the observation that Christendom is polluted by paganism. So, let's make another golden calf and keep on trucking.

One major counter point: God has had and continues to have a remnant in every generation those who have not bowed to Baal. See: Great Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and Exodus from Egypt. This remnant has never been in charge of governments nor have they forced their beliefs on anyone. They have been a witness to the Truth even through today.

Jesus gave His authority to His Church, not to a man or group of men. He also gave The Holy Spirit to lead, guide and direct in all Truth. Jesus also promised to never leave nor forsake his little flock. To say that everyone has apostasized is to say Jesus has not kept His promises.

These are all signs of the end of the age. Are we ready? Will your religion get you too heaven? Are you sure?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Jason1]

Jason, I don't know what your pre-HRM background was but here is an article which points also to other articles concerning what HRM is all about compared to orthodox Christianity.


The biggest disagreement being that HRM denies the Trinity, denies the deity of Christ, denies that salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing else (Torah keeping in particular).

I doubt that you will read it/them but here it is.

Torah Observance – Opposing God, Following Blind Men

HankD

Hank,

That article is written by someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. It is not representative AT ALL. I find it really sad that people try to discredit obeying the Father (another bird of the air trying to steal the word that was sown).

This is what most christians say or think: "We obey, we just don't obey too much". I call that utter foolishness with a little retard thrown in for good measure!

Maybe you and mennosota should write a hit piece together because you both fail to grasp what scripture really says about obedience. In fact, if you actually read scripture, it talks about it about every other verse.

 

[HankD]

Hank,

That article is written by someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. It is not representative AT ALL. I find it really sad that people try to discredit obeying the Father (another bird of the air trying to steal the word that was sown).

This is what most christians say or think: "We obey, we just don't obey too much". I call that utter foolishness with a little retard thrown in for good measure!

Maybe you and mennosota should write a hit piece together because you both fail to grasp what scripture really says about obedience. In fact, if you actually read scripture, it talks about it about every other verse.

You are wrong Jason.
The HRM came to our church last year and captivated one of our church members who then tried to take other members along with him.

I confronted him publicly and privately.

I rescued 2 other members from his error which he tried to disseminate in our local church.
He impacted several others in our local church and community.
He went on to Facebook and I confronted him again in his heresy.
He of course unfriended me but I still had to clean up the error in our local church and area.

You and he are "two peas in a pod" in your teaching.
That is why I knew immediately that you are associated with HRM.
The site I gave is VERY accurate concerning the error of the HRM.
In fact I wondered if you ARE GM (his initials)?

IMO You are attempting to deceive the folks here at the BB.
The HRM is the remnant/offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's The Worldwide Church of God.

Here is a propaganda site.
Sacred Name/Hebrew Roots

Here is your core belief.

You do not accept the Trinity.
You do not accept the Bible fact that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.
You do not accept salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing.
You do not accept the second birth of the children of God.

There are many other doctrine which are covered in the writings I gave and I am willing to discuss any of them publicly.

Here is an exhaustive expose of HRM teachings.
Hebrew Roots Movement | Apologetics Index

It therefore comes as no surprise that some factions within this movement go as far as to deny the doctrine of the Trinity, one of the essential teachings of the Christian faith.

Interestingly, many doctrines in the Hebrew Roots movement are rooted in the teachings of the late Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God — which was theologically a cult of Christianity, until (after Armstrong’s death) it made a dramatic turn-around and embraced orthodox Christianity instead.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

HankD

 

[Jason1]

You are wrong Jason.
The HRM came to our church last year and captivated one of our church members who then tried to take other members along with him.

I confronted him publicly and privately.

I rescued 2 other members from his error which he tried to disseminate in our local church.
He impacted several others in our local church and community.
He went on to Facebook and I confronted him again in his heresy.
He of course unfriended me but I still had to clean up the error in our local church and area.

You and he are "two peas in a pod" in your teaching.
That is why I knew immediately that you are associated with HRM.
The site I gave is VERY accurate concerning the error of the HRM.
In fact I wondered if you ARE GM (his initials)?

IMO You are attempting to deceive the folks here at the BB.
The HRM is the remnant/offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's The Worldwide Church of God.

Here is a propaganda site.
Sacred Name/Hebrew Roots

Here is your core belief.

You do not accept the Trinity.
You do not accept the Bible fact that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh.
You do not accept salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ plus nothing.
You do not accept the second birth of the children of God.

There are many other doctrine which are covered in the writings I gave and I am willing to discuss any of them publicly.

Here is an exhaustive expose of HRM teachings.
Hebrew Roots Movement | Apologetics Index



John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

HankD

Lies again. I don't support Trinity but the rest I do. Have said so many times. Don't lie false accuser.

 

[HankD]

Lies again. I don't support Trinity but the rest I do. Have said so many times. Don't lie false accuser.

OK we will take them one by one.
You admit you do not support Trinity belief.

Is Jesus Christ God come in the Flesh?

HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't disagree with you, however, my point was that the claim of Rome as the indisputed interpreter of Scripture and accurate interpreter of Scripture is not true. What is true is that the Roman church uses tradition to interpret Scripture.

The church of Rome on that agrees with the Mormons/Jw as they also claim to be infallible, so whose view is correct? Hint, NONE!

 

[Yeshua1]

Lies again. I don't support Trinity but the rest I do. Have said so many times. Don't lie false accuser.

Do you see jesus as being very God?

 

[mastrhiram]

The weary old theory that Christianity is just paganism warmed up always circulates around this time of year.

Armchair atheists like to point out the similarity between the word “Easter” and the Near Eastern goddess “Ishtar”. The problem is, the myth of Ishtar had nothing to do with resurrection from the dead. She was the goddess of fertility, and went down into the underworld, but that’s about the extent of the similarity between the myth of Ishtar and the story of Jesus Christ. From Wikipedia, here is the story of Ishtar. See how similar it feels to the gospel account of Jesus’ death and resurrection:

One of the most famous myths[6] about Ishtar describes her descent to the underworld. In this myth, Ishtar approaches the gates of the underworld and demands that the gatekeeper open them:

If thou openest not the gate to let me enter,
I will break the door, I will wrench the lock,
I will smash the door-posts, I will force the doors.
I will bring up the dead to eat the living.
And the dead will outnumber the living.

The gatekeeper hurried to tell Ereshkigal, the Queen of the Underworld. Ereshkigal told the gatekeeper to let Ishtar enter, but “according to the ancient decree”.

The gatekeeper let Ishtar into the underworld, opening one gate at a time. At each gate, Ishtar had to shed one article of clothing. When she finally passed the seventh gate, she was naked. In a rage, Ishtar threw herself at Ereshkigal, but Ereshkigal ordered her servant Namtar to imprison Ishtar and unleash sixty diseases against her.

After Ishtar descended to the underworld, all sexual activity ceased on earth. The god Papsukal reported the situation to Ea, the king of the gods. Ea created an intersex being called Asu-shu-namir and sent them to Ereshkigal, telling them to invoke “the name of the great gods” against her and to ask for the bag containing the waters of life. Ereshkigal was enraged when she heard Asu-shu-namir’s demand, but she had to give them the water of life. Asu-shu-namir sprinkled Ishtar with this water, reviving her. Then, Ishtar passed back through the seven gates, getting one article of clothing back at each gate, and was fully clothed as she exited the last gate.

Most ludicrous is the supposition that because the word “Ishtar” sounds like “Easter” they must be linked.

In fact “Ishtar” is of Akkadian origin and Easter comes from Anglo Saxon. Thinking they are linked is kind of like saying “Elvis” must be linked to the resurrection because it is an anagram of “Lives”.

Early Christians didn't hi-jack pagan myths and lay a heavy layer of mythology over the simple Jesus story. Do a little more research before posting falsehood.