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Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Jun 3, 2017.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Brother, you asked two different things, we have two different topics going on between us. 1) Adam's willl 2) God blinding folks, which you brought up with Ezekiel, remember? Unless you think God blinded Adam?
     
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    And you believe man cannot possibly choose to believe without God causing him to do so, correct? So then explain why God had to blind the already blind so they could not see and believe?
     
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yep. Bible is silent when convenient and gets stretched like a cheap rubber band when need be.
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I think you haven't followed the conversation. I am not the one assuming one way or the other. I already know Adam had a freewill and this will was given and framed within it's boundaries by God who in His Sovereignty designed it this way for His glory. God did not make Adam sin, and God knew that He would and ordained that indeed He would.

    I do, question is, do you? So answer, you said Adam sinned, was this of Adam's freewill choice? If not, then who is responsible for Adam's choice to sin?

    I believe you need to study a bit more on the differences between Arminian and Calvinism. For neither one actually considers the full counsel of God's Word on these matters. Both lay hold of proof text and ignore context which would oppose their view.
     
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    You didn't address my questions. Instead you attempted to justify you view without even looking at the text.

    Second, you ignored the paragraph I wrote under the scriptural text I provided.

    Please go back and try again.
     
  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Easy. If they knew He was truly the Christ, no crucifixion. They saw the miracles yet failed to believe. They saw Lazarus raised four days after being entombed. If God had not blinded them, they would have known Him to be very Christ. Ergo, no crucifixion.
     
  7. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Adam was given a free will yet God had boundaries set? My friend, that's not a will that's free then.
     
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Sorry, makes no sense. you believe they already could not believe from birth. No matter what they seen you believe they could not believe. Thus, God would be blinding the blind. BUT, according to God they could choose to believe so He decided after all their rejection He would seal them in their unbelief by blinding them. Pretty simple.
     
  9. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I say that there is no textual data to discuss free-will when we look at Adam and the fall. I am asking you for textual evidence that argues for Adam having a free will.

    What we know is that Adam and Eve were shown mercy and grace when God met them after the fall. We know that God banished them from the garden and cursed them and the earth because of their actions.

    We have no data stating free will anywhere in the text. You are forcing an inference on the text and ultimately upon God.

    As I stated before...
    We know that no one seeks God. The Bible tells us.
    We know that humans are dead in trespasses and sins. The Bible tells us.
    We know God makes Christians alive in Christ. The Bible tells us.

    What we don't know is how a dead person can make a willful choice.

    If there is free will, how does a dead person willfully choose? I find no biblical answer to that question. Thus, I must go with what the text actually tells me, not with what my philosophy has reasoned. No matter how foolish the text may be to my human reasoning...I must stay true to the text...the very words of God.
     
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  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Show me where it gets stretched. Your talk is cheap...like Donald Trump.
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is according to the boundaries God set. Do you think Adam had freedom to destroy God? Don't be silly. we know what is biblically meant by freewill. Don't play games, figure it out, God did not do this in secret, He let us know what He has done.
     
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    How do you know? What textual evidence do you have from God in His word.

    Until you provide such evidence you know nothing regarding free will.
     
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So you are saying Adam was spiritually dead when He sinned?
     
  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Show me where I say that.

    Stick to the text of scripture. Prove free will by showing me God declaring free will.
     
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Your position is that Adam was a dead man walking and therefore could not have any free will to choose God or choose satan.
     
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    There, I showed you where you said Adam was dead. Unless you think there is an exception with Adam, which you did not state. However, we are talking about Adam, so i have to conclude your dead man comments are including Adam. You will have to clarify your position.
     
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    When did humans become spiritually dead? Was Adam's spirit created dead or did it die at the fall?

    Now, actually try this time.
     
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God stated to him that he would die when he disobeyed God..
    Spirually deadness direct result of the Fall....
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I can only respond to your own comments. We are talking about Adam and whether or not he had a free will. and you made the comment how can a dead person have a free will.
     
  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am merely stooping to the same level of debate as you.
     
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