Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?

[steaver]

How does that text fit with your contention regarding Adam and free will. I am waiting for textual evidence.

Brother, you asked two different things, we have two different topics going on between us. 1) Adam's willl 2) God blinding folks, which you brought up with Ezekiel, remember? Unless you think God blinded Adam?

 

[steaver]

Man does have a will. However, it is enslaved to sin and self.[Matthew 6:24, Romans 6:6 & Romans 6:16]

And you believe man cannot possibly choose to believe without God causing him to do so, correct? So then explain why God had to blind the already blind so they could not see and believe?

 

[Reynolds]

So Calvinist believe Jesus Christ does not have free will.

Cause if he did then he is not human.


I'm still waiting for Calvinist to confirm that they indeed don't have a brain because the bible doesn't mention "brain".

Yep. Bible is silent when convenient and gets stretched like a cheap rubber band when need be.

 

[steaver]

You assume only one or the other, either Adam had free will or God made Him, that's all you see, and the reason is because you don't study the bible, there is a third category.

I think you haven't followed the conversation. I am not the one assuming one way or the other. I already know Adam had a freewill and this will was given and framed within it's boundaries by God who in His Sovereignty designed it this way for His glory. God did not make Adam sin, and God knew that He would and ordained that indeed He would.

God made a law, Satan tempted Adam, Adam sinned. Here we see Satan sin, Adam sin, yet God pure and is not the author of the sin, understand?

I do, question is, do you? So answer, you said Adam sinned, was this of Adam's freewill choice? If not, then who is responsible for Adam's choice to sin?

I wish, I guess in the wind, that people would actually study before giving these crazy analogies, "God didn't want robots", right, what's the point? "He didn't want puppets", it's so amateur, just shows no study, which is fine, but don't make posts on a Christian forum where you can deceive a brother. Go study, learn Reformed theology, that is men trying to Reform the Roman Church, there is two camps, the Roman camp which includes Arminiism, and Reformed, no middle ground. Arminiism is SO CLOSE TO ROME it's remarkable, take away the merits of the saints, take away category sins, take away the Lords supper and you have Arminiism.

I believe you need to study a bit more on the differences between Arminian and Calvinism. For neither one actually considers the full counsel of God's Word on these matters. Both lay hold of proof text and ignore context which would oppose their view.

 

[MennoSota]

You are the one who is letting your views determine the text. Even John Mcarthur agrees with my interpretation of that verse. He just adds the caveat that all are "all the elect" and none are "none of the elect.

You didn't address my questions. Instead you attempted to justify you view without even looking at the text.

Second, you ignored the paragraph I wrote under the scriptural text I provided.

Please go back and try again.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And you believe man cannot possibly choose to believe without God causing him to do so, correct? So then explain why God had to blind the already blind so they could not see and believe?

Easy. If they knew He was truly the Christ, no crucifixion. They saw the miracles yet failed to believe. They saw Lazarus raised four days after being entombed. If God had not blinded them, they would have known Him to be very Christ. Ergo, no crucifixion.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I think you haven't followed the conversation. I am not the one assuming one way or the other. I already know Adam had a freewill and this will was given and framed within it's boundaries by God who in His Sovereignty designed it this way for His glory. God did not make Adam sin, and God knew that He would and ordained that indeed He would.


I do, question is, do you? So answer, you said Adam sinned, was this of Adam's freewill choice? If not, then who is responsible for Adam's choice to sin?



I believe you need to study a bit more on the differences between Arminian and Calvinism. For neither one actually considers the full counsel of God's Word on these matters. Both lay hold of proof text and ignore context which would oppose their view.

Adam was given a free will yet God had boundaries set? My friend, that's not a will that's free then.

 

[steaver]

Easy. If they knew He was truly the Christ, no crucifixion. They saw the miracles yet failed to believe. They saw Lazarus raised four days after being entombed. If God had not blinded them, they would have known Him to be very Christ. Ergo, no crucifixion.

Sorry, makes no sense. you believe they already could not believe from birth. No matter what they seen you believe they could not believe. Thus, God would be blinding the blind. BUT, according to God they could choose to believe so He decided after all their rejection He would seal them in their unbelief by blinding them. Pretty simple.

 

[MennoSota]

It is your view, not mine. You say Adam did not have a free will to choose between obeying God and not. Then who is responsible for the sin if Adam had no choice? That only leaves God or the devil.

I say that there is no textual data to discuss free-will when we look at Adam and the fall. I am asking you for textual evidence that argues for Adam having a free will.

What we know is that Adam and Eve were shown mercy and grace when God met them after the fall. We know that God banished them from the garden and cursed them and the earth because of their actions.

We have no data stating free will anywhere in the text. You are forcing an inference on the text and ultimately upon God.

As I stated before...
We know that no one seeks God. The Bible tells us.
We know that humans are dead in trespasses and sins. The Bible tells us.
We know God makes Christians alive in Christ. The Bible tells us.

What we don't know is how a dead person can make a willful choice.

If there is free will, how does a dead person willfully choose? I find no biblical answer to that question. Thus, I must go with what the text actually tells me, not with what my philosophy has reasoned. No matter how foolish the text may be to my human reasoning...I must stay true to the text...the very words of God.

 

[MennoSota]

Yep. Bible is silent when convenient and gets stretched like a cheap rubber band when need be.

Show me where it gets stretched. Your talk is cheap...like Donald Trump.

 

[steaver]

Adam was given a free will yet God had boundaries set? My friend, that's not a will that's free then.

Yes, it is according to the boundaries God set. Do you think Adam had freedom to destroy God? Don't be silly. we know what is biblically meant by freewill. Don't play games, figure it out, God did not do this in secret, He let us know what He has done.

 

[MennoSota]

I think you haven't followed the conversation. I am not the one assuming one way or the other. I already know Adam had a freewill

How do you know? What textual evidence do you have from God in His word.

Until you provide such evidence you know nothing regarding free will.

 

[steaver]

If there is free will, how does a dead person willfully choose? I find no biblical answer to that question. Thus, I must go with what the text actually tells me, not with what my philosophy has reasoned. No matter how foolish the text may be to my human reasoning...I must stay true to the text...the very words of God.

So you are saying Adam was spiritually dead when He sinned?

 

[MennoSota]

So you are saying Adam was spiritually dead when He sinned?

Show me where I say that.

Stick to the text of scripture. Prove free will by showing me God declaring free will.

 

[steaver]

How do you know? What textual evidence do you have from God in His word.

Until you provide such evidence you know nothing regarding free will.

Your position is that Adam was a dead man walking and therefore could not have any free will to choose God or choose satan.

 

[steaver]

how does a dead person willfully choose?

There, I showed you where you said Adam was dead. Unless you think there is an exception with Adam, which you did not state. However, we are talking about Adam, so i have to conclude your dead man comments are including Adam. You will have to clarify your position.

 

[MennoSota]

There, I showed you where you said Adam was dead. Unless you think there is an exception with Adam, which you did not state. However, we are talking about Adam, so i have to conclude your dead man comments are including Adam. You will have to clarify your position.

When did humans become spiritually dead? Was Adam's spirit created dead or did it die at the fall?

Now, actually try this time.

 

[Yeshua1]

When did humans become spiritually dead? Was Adam's spirit created dead or did it die at the fall?

Now, actually try this time.

God stated to him that he would die when he disobeyed God..
Spirually deadness direct result of the Fall....

 

[steaver]

When did humans become spiritually dead? Was Adam's spirit created dead or did it die at the fall?

Now, actually try this time.

I can only respond to your own comments. We are talking about Adam and whether or not he had a free will. and you made the comment how can a dead person have a free will.

 

[Reynolds]

You didn't address my questions. Instead you attempted to justify you view without even looking at the text.

Second, you ignored the paragraph I wrote under the scriptural text I provided.

Please go back and try again.

I am merely stooping to the same level of debate as you.