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Arminianism and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    And what is wrong with using colored text to make it easier to distinguish my answer to each point?
     
    #101 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  2. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, and I also said............
    "And he[God] gave everyone the capacity for faith in something or we wouldn't have folk believing in Allah, Buddah, Krishna etc."

    And that verse is talking about God's dispersing of "gifts" to believers. Sir, concerning salvation, God's will is that every man be saved. The Bible says so.
     
    #102 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you are equating belief in a pagan deity with faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior?

    Exactly. And faith is one of those gifts of the Spirit that is given to every person as the Lord sees fit.
     
    #103 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    That is what the quote function is for. Use it.
     
    #104 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, this is where we disagree. I think it is because where you view grace as included in salvation (sides of the same coin) I believe faith should also be included.
     
    #105 JonC, Aug 2, 2017
  6. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    No sir, that's not what I meant.
     
    #106 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  7. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Does God want Calvinist to sin?

    So Calvinist don't sin ever again.

    Or do you think you are greater then God's Sovereignty and God can't get what he wants?
     
    #107 utilyan, Aug 2, 2017
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Are you suggesting that God wants men to sin, that men don't sin, or that men are greater than God?

    The part where you go wrong is in the assumption that the nature of God's desires are as those of a child.
     
    #108 JonC, Aug 2, 2017
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, it seems they think that unless God controled every little detail, or if something "thwarted" "overpowered" or "frustrated" His will, He would be "weak". I will tell you on the authority of the Word of God, that God does NOT want "Calvinists" to sin. Bu they sin just like everybody else. Is God's sovereignty being "defeated" or "frustrated" by these sinners?
     
    #109 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  10. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    I'll speak for him: He's suggesting none of the three. What he's asking is: If you say that God's will is "irresistible" at the point of salvation. why is it resistible by the Calvinist after the Calvinist gets saved? Is that right brother? Or something to that effect?
     
    #110 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Your advice is usually summarize the argument instead of merely mentioning a book. I don't remember his argument being convincing or shredding. Maybe you could highlight his "shredding" points.
     
    #111 Reynolds, Aug 2, 2017
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly. And that is your answer as well - none of those three.

    If I had seriously believed that my questions reflected your view then I would only have proved myself incompetent in understanding your position.
     
    #112 JonC, Aug 2, 2017
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Then why did you imply that believing on Christ as Lord and Savior is the equated to believing in the pagans you mentioned?
     
    #113 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You display a serious failure of understanding God's Sovereignty.

    We all know that.

    We all know that too.

    No. You seem unaware of the difference between God's decretal will and God's permissive will.
     
    #114 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
  15. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Ok, fair enough, enlighten me.

    Which of the two "wills" was this one?
    Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    And which "will" was this?
    2 Peter 3 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    ...and this one...
    1 Timothy 2:4 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
     
    #115 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    What's your point? The first passage is a specific faith, the second a general faith.

    The first passage says "to another."
    The second passage says "to every man"
    They are two different things.
     
    #116 Reynolds, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    God's permissive will allowed them to rebel.

    God's permissive will allows them to rebel.

    God's permissive will allows rebellion.

    This all seems rather self-evident, doesn't it?

    In the first verse you quote, if God decreed they would gather, they would gather.

    In the second verse you quote, if God decreed they would not perish, they would not perish.

    In the third verse you quote, if God decreed they would come, they would come.

    Unless you do not believe in the Omnipotence of God. Do you?
     
    #117 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    One could JUST teach.preach from Roman 8 and 11, and Ephesians 2, and there would be no dount that salvation from start to finish is all a gift from the Lord unto us.
    Even the Apostle paul, greatest theologian in history, was in awe and silenced by that!
     
    #118 Yeshua1, Aug 2, 2017
  19. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    No sir,
    the first scripture I quoted, Matthew 23:37 plainly tells us that Jesus wanted them to do something........... but they wanted otherwise.

    The second verse I quoted 2 Peter 3:9 tells us that God does not want any to perish.........and wants all to repent

    And the third verse I quoted 1 Timothy 2:4 plainly tells us that God wants all men to be saved.
     
    #119 SheepWhisperer, Aug 2, 2017
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, but He allows that to rebel.

    But he allows them to refuse.

    But allows them to reject.

    You do not believe God is impotent, do you?
     
    #120 TCassidy, Aug 2, 2017
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