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eschatology continued

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by prophecy70, Sep 30, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, according to the greek terms used, and the context of the scriptures!
     
    #101 Yeshua1, Oct 4, 2017
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thank you. That's helpful.
     
    #102 John of Japan, Oct 4, 2017
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Spurgeon was historical premil, and did see God bring the Jews back to Himself in the end!
     
    #103 Yeshua1, Oct 4, 2017
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    A majority of the ECF were preMils, and would not have seen a large shift towards AMil views until Augustine made popular and the right thing to do, when he shifted towards a spiritualized view, with the Rome Church as the Kingdom of God here upon earth.
     
    #104 Yeshua1, Oct 4, 2017
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not unless you are a full pretierist!
     
    #105 Yeshua1, Oct 4, 2017
  6. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I wasn't doing that, I wanted him to see it. and post, but he can't because he listed as non baptist. He is a former Futurist as well, so I thought that would be very interesting.
     
    #106 prophecy70, Oct 4, 2017
  7. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I am not denying, the Pre Mill Amill positions, Im saying the Future one world Government, antichrist, 7 year tribulation, was not taught in early church history. Thats what I want to see in a early writing before the Catholic Doctrine.
    Daniels 70 weeks, find an EARLY commentary that throws a HUGE time gap within a prophecy of 490 years.

    The HE is the messiah in that chapter, because earlier the Prince isn't the subject, The people of the prince are. So that can not make them a he? I am no Hebrew scholar, But I do understand english.
    So Jesus confirmed a covenant.
    I don't see how a prophecy about the jewish people, and Jesus, can just be thrown Into the future, with a world leader 7 year tribulation all over one verse, unless you are told that before hand. I had my wife read it with no knowledge of it, and she sure didn't come up with a 7 year tribulation in the future. She pretty much said what covenant did the messiah make?

    עַ֣ם the people
    נָגִ֤יד of the prince

    There has been over 1000 failed futurist predictions, Remember when Jack Van Impe said the soviet flag was going to flying over the white house and that it was going to be armageddon?
     
    #107 prophecy70, Oct 4, 2017
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Actually, it is found.

    The Apostle John wrote the Revelation, Polycarp was his student, and was pre-mill. Justin Martry and others influenced by John reflect that same thinking.

    Did not John warn of the Antichrist in John 2?

    What of Paul’s statement in 2nd Thessalonians?

    Certainly the early church was taught about Antichrist, and recognized the type fulfilled in those of power in their day.

    One of the reasons there was a need for further clarification in the letters and teaching was the confusion by some in early church, not unlike that in this discussion thread.
     
    #108 agedman, Oct 4, 2017
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I will, if you can ***PROVE*** the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred. Any other discussion of preterism without such proof is moot.
     
    #109 robycop3, Oct 5, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I likely know world history better than you, as I have some 60 years of studying it. And I have Encyclopaedia Britannica & Collier's Encyclopedia right in fronta me as well as a whole Internet fulla intel.

    And I have the knowledge of some 40 years of Scripture study. Thru this, I have learned that Scripture is MOSTLY-LITERAL. (However, I readily admit there's SOME symbolism in it here-n-there, but mosta it is explained by other Scriptures or its meaning discerned by hindsight & our overview of ALL Scripture.)

    The destruction of J & the temple in 70 AD is recognized by all readers of history, Christian & secular alike. However, Jesus prophesied other events surrounding His return, which have obviously NOT happened yet, and no amount of distortion of history now Scripture-twisting & re-defining will fill in the gaps between pret pronouncements and HISTORY/REALITY. Those events MUST cometa pass exactly as Jesus caused toem to be written down, to the last letter. Nothing else is their fulfillment.
     
    #110 robycop3, Oct 5, 2017
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Thanx, John, but I consider the SOURCE. The PROOF of the literality of Jesus' prophecies is right before us, in war, rumor of war, etc. There's absolutely NO valid reason to believe the rest won't be fulfilled just-as-literally.

    OTOH, "Prophecy" offers NO PROOF that the eschatological events have already occurred, except to repeat someone else's guesswork & imagination. Without ACTUAL PROOF those events have already occurred, any other discussion about the validity & truth of preterism is vapor.
     
    #111 robycop3, Oct 5, 2017
  12. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Robycop3 did you read Hal Lindsey's book countdown to Armageddon? When is that ufo going to land and demons come out saying they created man?

    You can't make this stuff up. It's laughable.

    Your literalism is flawed. You have a preconceived theology dictating what is literal and what's not.
     
    #112 prophecy70, Oct 5, 2017
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  13. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    So you honestly believe Jesus is going to ride down here and Stand on the mount of Olives and Spilt it in two?
    Revelations 13 And I saw a beast coming out of the sea with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
    Literally thats not a man so how is it the antichrist?


    Revelations 6:13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

    Man, how can something double or more in size of the earth actually fall to earth?

    Isaiah 19:1-2
    Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt;
    The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence,
    And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.

    Did God actually ride cloud?

    How is anyone going to provide Actual proof of anything, if you won't read history. I can't take you in my time machine back there. Maybe Hal Lindsey's UFO can give you a ride back in time.

    The truth of Preterism is vapor because I can't use history? Prove the Holocaust happened, without using any history books which is someones guesswork and immgination, Ill be waiting.
     
    #113 prophecy70, Oct 5, 2017
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  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I agree. One of our opponents remarked that I was on here to spread my pretrib premil views. Actually I'm on this thread, as you are no doubt, to combat the heresy of full preterism and the false doctrine of preterism.
     
    #114 John of Japan, Oct 5, 2017
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It might have been interesting if (1) he was honest about what religion he is; (2) he had not been insulting when he approached me; (3) if I discerned from his language that he had a scholarly approach; (4) if it wasn't a PM. He could have asked me nicely in a PM to debate him on the non-Baptist forum, but I'm certainly not going to hide a debate on a PM thread.
     
    #115 John of Japan, Oct 5, 2017
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  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I did not see anywhere that you directly asked me about the antichrist.
     
    #116 John of Japan, Oct 5, 2017
  17. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Pity your studies didn't include English spelling.
     
    #117 David Kent, Oct 5, 2017
  18. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    That is great coming from you.
     
    #118 David Kent, Oct 5, 2017
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Are you able to give an actual answer or just the intellectual equivalent of "am not, are too!"?
     
    #119 TCassidy, Oct 5, 2017
  20. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    And Scofield
     
    #120 David Kent, Oct 5, 2017
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