1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Counsel Wanted for My Theological Conclusions

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Steven Yeadon, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    It is merely "borrowed" and is used in the Greek OT LXX when the term for atonement is normally in Hebrew.


    C. LXX

    1. The noun hilasmos appears only five times in the canonical portions of the LXX and three times in the apocryphal writings.
    2. It is used to translate Hebrew kippurim (syr!P|K!), which is the plural form of the noun kippur.
    3. It was derived from kaphar as used in the Piel stem.
    4. It was used in the name of the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur, “Day of Atonement” (Lev. 25:9).

    It is impossible to inject the Greek Pagan concept of propitiating the angry deity "man so sacrificed that God relented" into Lev 25:9 or Lev 16.

    In the Bible it is "God so LOVED the HE GAVE" -- a concept totally foreign to the greek pagan form of the term for "propitiation"

    Thus in 1 John 2:2 "He is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the whole world" NIV



    Ezek 45:20

    20 And they shall take of its blood, and shall put [it] on the four horns of the altar, and upon the four corners of the propitiatory, and upon the base round about, and they shall make atonement for it

    20 καὶ οὕτως ποιήσεις ἐν τῷ ἑβδόμῳ μηνὶ μιᾷ τοῦ μηνὸς λήμψῃ παρ᾿ ἑκάστου ἀπόμοιραν καὶ ἐξιλάσεσθε τὸν οἶκον

    ἐξιλάσεσθε atonement, ransom, propitiatory offering

    ἐξίλασμα
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Redefining "world" in this case "whole world" to mean "not really every perrson" ... is merely the "need" of Calvinism -- it is not any form of exegesis

    Goes along with the "need" to avoid the "God so LOVED that HE GAVE" form of the Gospel that we have in the Bible and select exclusively the pagan-context for propitiation which is either "man so sacrificed that God relented" or that "Christ so sacrificed that God relented" -- AS If either Christ is not God or that the pagan-greek form of propitiation could ever have been of the form "the angry gods were tortured to the point of relenting"
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The world would referring to those whom the death of Christ actually was an atonement for, His own elect, and not all sinners period.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    its not torture in the sense you suggest, but the full wrath of a Holy God towards sin coming down upon the One who chose to be the Sin Bearer for His own people.
    Jesus suffered "torture" of His own free will, in order to have some to be saved and reconciled back to God!
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Sounds like God "paying" not "God getting paid" --- and the payment is in the form of "torment" of suffering... i.e. torture.


    Jesus IS God. God was IN Christ reconciling the World to Himself. God was not "getting paid" God was "getting tortured".

    Calvinism uses the grocery-store model for sin and payment where God "gets paid" for the groceries that you buy - and once they are bought God has nothing more to say about it - after all "He got paid in full".

    But that is not how Atonement works - that is not what happened at the cross. At the Cross "God PAID".
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The method used was the Penal Substitution Atonement view.
     
Loading...